Self-Preservation, Sexual, or Social: Which Instinct Drives You? Unlocking a Key Piece of the Personality Puzzle Through the Enneagram

This is an automated transcript and may contain minor errors.

Michael: Hello everyone, this is Michael Sloyer, and I am here with my partners Hari Prasada and Rasanath. And today we're going to be talking about a dimension of the Enneagram that is critical to all of us, whether we are steeped in the Enneagram or not, and that dimension is the instincts.

So Hari, would you get us started? What are the instincts

Hari Prasada: so the instincts are urges that exist in the body. Then get hardwired into our personality and shape the way that we show up. what's essential to understand is that these are pullings into the world, into specific arenas that are gut feelings that are ever present, and they shape how we show up as part of our personalities from the earliest age.

Michael: And why is it important that we understand not only the idea of the instincts, but also what our particular

Hari Prasada: instincts actually are? Because the personality puzzle is. Very incomplete without them. If we want self knowledge, self understanding, self empathy, self-acceptance, and the ability to understand, empathize with and accept others and best serve them, this is a huge reveal.

This is so illuminating, and as our teachers at the Enneagram Institute, Don Risso and Russ Hudson would say more conflict arises between people of different instincts than people of different types. Or to put it very simply, conflict is created more by the instincts than by the types. So if we want to reduce conflict, create more harmony and best serve ourselves and one another, this is super helpful.

Rasanath: So when you think about the word instincts, it is essentially an impulse. It is the way we express ourselves almost instantaneously to any stimulus that comes from the outside.

And how we respond is different. Our priorities, our choices are different. That's what the instincts really speak about, which goes back to what Hari was saying earlier, that more conflicts arise because of differences in instincts Why is because when we are responding in different ways to an external stimulus, when our preference to an external stimulus is different behaviorally, that puts us at odds

Michael: So in terms of the system itself, how many instincts are there?

How does it work?

Rasanath: So there are three instincts, and the three instincts are, number one, self preservation. We all know what self-preservation is. This is the most basic survival instinct that we all have. Humans, animals alike.

That's the first instinct. Self-preservation. The next instinct is the sexual instinct, which is about reproduction, building the legacy. And then when you go deeper into it, you'll also see that the sexual instinct is about breaking free from constraints. It's the instinct to adventure, to seek, to do things that have never been done before,

The third instinct is the social instinct. And the social instinct is about building community. I know that I need more than my own unit. To not just survive, but to thrive, to get a sense of connection to belong. So that is the social instinct. So self-preservation, sexual and social, those are the three instincts.

Hari Prasada: So all three instincts are present in every one of us, but in varying degrees of prioritization. Or we have an unconscious wiring that prioritizes one instinct the highest, another secondary, and another tertiary. So that is what is the instinctual stack, The instinctual stack is my inherent, and I say inherent, very intentionally prioritization of the three instincts that we all have.

So we all possess them, but. It feels like we don't possess them to the same degree. Is that actually the case? Uh, maybe not. Maybe we do have them in full. What I mean is that we have access to all three of these in full, but because of our personality, because of the way we're wired, we're geared more in one direction.

We put our weight in one direction, our emphasis on one, and we tend to put the second one as something that is close but not as important, and then the tertiary as something which we neglect and that becomes then a blind spot. So we refer to the third instinct as a blind spot, though it need not be, and a lot of what we want to build our awareness for is.

To see how our dominant instinct, the one that we put more of our weight on, most weight on, how that is actually being overdone. We're over exercising the strength. It's a strength overused, if you will. And the secondary one tends to be a little bit more in balance, although there's stuff that needs to be worked on there, but it's not as heavy of a lift as the dominant and then the tertiary, the blind spot for most of us, almost all of us, that has to be brought into focus so that we stop neglecting it.

So we get into trouble primarily by over exercising the dominant instinct in our stack, and then by neglecting the tertiary, the blind spot. So we wanna bring these instincts more into balance, understanding what they are, what our inherent prioritization of them is, and how to best leverage each of them, which are accessible to all of us.

We have all three, and no one is better than any other. Justice with the personality types in the Enneagram. No one is any better than another. It's not that it's more advantageous to be a sexual dominant than a self-preservation dominant. It's just about health consciousness. And consciousness means understanding what these instincts are, how they're playing out within me and in my life, and in the people in my life, and how I can best orient myself accordingly.

Michael: Very helpful. Thank you both. So we all have different needs, and I use that term a little bit loosely here, where we have needs for survival. Somebody with a self-preservation instinct will be, have an urge more in that direction than we have needs for reproduction and also attraction and to feel attraction.

And that is more about the sexual instinct. And then we have needs around community, and that's more about the social instinct. So we have all three of these in our life, but for each person, there's one which we over index towards, and that's the dominant. There's one where we don't spend so much time and energy on.

That's the blind spot. And then there's one in the middle. And so that makes up the instinctual stack.

Hari Prasada: The caveat here is. What Ana gave us in terms of survival, and in a way, all of them relate to survival. Most viscerally the self-preservation instinct, but survival of the species, if you will, right, for sexual and survival also is best served in community.

That's why you see even amongst the animals, right, herds, packs, they're flocks, right? Because community helps to ensure survival and as Rasanath mentioned, also thriving, that there's a greater experience of life. The quality of life is better when it's not just me and I'm on my own. So the caveat is this is at the primal level.

This is sort of the animal way of approaching, and there is a place for that that does. Manifest in human beings. But our goal is not to live like animals and to use our instincts like animals. We want to use these instincts to elevate our consciousness, and so then they take on a very different meaning.

as an example, the self preservation instinct becomes about really doing the needful to take care of myself with minimal dwelling on that, just doing my responsible work.

To make sure that I can exist in this world and take care of the people that I'm responsible to in a spirit of service, leveraging my capacity and my inclination in a very beautiful way with the sexual dominant. It's not about, I want to feel attraction towards people sexually, and I want them to feel attraction towards me sexually.

It's about I have a sort of magnetic energy about me, and we'll talk more about that. And I want to use that to attract people towards a cause, not towards my ego, not so that they think I'm great and I'm sexy, but quite the opposite.

It's not about attracting people to me, it's about using that for a cause. Like imagine that somebody who is such a gifted speaker, who is so compelling and has such an energy, they just naturally attract attention and command a room.

I'm thinking of our gurus, rad, Swami, and Swami. They both have a sexual dominant instinct and they're. Swamis. That means they're lifelong monks.

They're renut. They have no sexuality in their life whatsoever, not even the slightest trace, They are completely, fully dedicated to the cause of uplifting consciousness, and they're using their charisma and their magnetic energy to attract people.

So likewise for the social instinct, it becomes not about fitting in or manipulating situations so that I can climb in status. It becomes about serving the community by understanding their needs and adapting myself.

For that purpose to really take care of others. And again, all of this towards the ultimate cause of helping people towards becoming their selves

Michael: beautiful. So when somebody is aware of their instincts but not fixated on them, that's when they're able to use them in service. And then it becomes a much more integrated landscape, an integrated situation

Hari Prasada: Exactly. I'm not governed by them. And it's not primal. It doesn't have that primal animal feel to it anymore.

Michael: Great. So let's get into each of the instincts and thank you for starting us with this model of what it looks like when they're really healthy.

So let's start with self-preservation, and you also spoke about the instincts as energy. So as we go through each of the instincts, let's really focus and hone in on what is the energy of someone with this dominant instinct.

Rasanath: The most important way of really understanding each of these instincts is to pay very close attention to the body language and the energy that you experience in the presence of someone. And the reason why, uh, I have to say this right off the bat, is we are gonna be talking about specific areas that these instincts naturally delve on and gravitate towards.

And it's very easy to say, oh, I think a lot about this particular area, so I must be that instinct. What we want to do is, yes, we have to take that into consideration, but also pay very close attention to how energetically, what's the energy that's put out there in terms of the instincts itself.

'cause that is the most important way in which we can understand what is our instinct and what is somebody else's instinct. So self-preservation, the natural experience around somebody who's a self-preservation dominant is a certain pullback. Energy. The self-preservation instinct knows that I have limited energy and I need to use it in the best possible way.

And so there is a natural, you'll see a certain conservative approach to how I expend my energy. When you are in the presence of someone who has a dominant self-preservation instinct, you'll see they are quieter than a social or a sexual. There is a certain pullback energy about them.

They also delve into, or are naturally attuned to the basics of life. So for example, when I'm going on a journey, when I'm going to my office, I need to make sure that I, I carry my water and food with me. I pay more attention to making sure I have those with me because I know they're very important for my self preservation.

There is a certain gravitation towards the basic stability elements of life.

I think the most important thing is for all of these instincts as we've been emphasizing, I. They each have a certain energy because they're energies that live in the body, just like the personality types. And these instincts each have a certain approach to energy.

Hari Prasada: So Ana said, and I just wanna highlight that self-preservation or self pre dominant instinct is about, I recognize I have limited energy, so therefore I'm going to be reluctant in, in expending it. And that creates a kind of introversion and a way in which I'm a little more subdued. The way I speak is just a little bit flatter than other people.

It's unconscious. It's not that I'm consciously thinking about this and trying to conserve my energy. There may be some of that, but most of these instincts, as with most of our personalities there, unc. So I just do it and it's so helpful. It's so revealing to see, oh, that's what I'm doing. That's why I'm doing it.

Michael: So before we were recording, we were talking a little bit about how each type has a certain neurosis. This is something that you guys had shared with me a few years ago when we were doing a deeper dive into the instincts. And so I just wanna highlight the two questions that the self pre.

Instinct tends to ask, and this represents their neurosis. And those two questions are, how am I going to keep it all together and will people demand too much of my energy? So as you both have been highlighting really this fixation on my own energy and making sure that I don't expend too much because I see it as a finite resource,

Rasanath: will people demand too much energy for me is, as Hari mentioned, you will see how, again, it's not something that I'm very conscious about in the sense I'm not always thinking will will people demand too much energy For me, it's just in the way that I respond.

I am always making sure that it is not demanded. So there is almost an auto adjustment. So when there is more demand, there is a way in which I have learned how to pull back. So that the demand is decreased and the more we become aware that that's what's happening, the more we'll know how to exercise it more consciously.

Michael: Great. And then we are also discussing something called the chief complaint. So what is that for the self-preservation instinct?

Hari Prasada: Boring. You're boring. This is very painful. Uh, it's something which many people who have a self-preservation dominant instinct are self-conscious, worried and embarrassed about that people can feel like, Hey, where's the life?

What's going on? Why do you speak in such a monotonous way? Or can't you drum up a little bit more zest, something that will be more compelling? I'm thinking of. One of the most famous scenes in cinema now is in Ferris Day, Ferris Bueller's Day off, where Ben Stein is the the teacher, high school teacher, right?

And he's just going on and on and on. And it's so dry and boring, and people are so afraid that I'm gonna be subjected to this. And the self-preservation dominant instinct persons are afraid, oh my God, are people thinking that I'm subjecting them to this? Now, of course, that's a very exaggerated version, and for most people it doesn't manifest with that extreme.

Rasanath: However, it is something which is a real complaint So just to clarify, when we talk about chief complaint, it's the complaint about people with that dominant instinct to not necessarily complain of the people with that dominant instinct. It's complaint about how people experience them.

Hari Prasada: But if enough people complain about it to them, then that becomes their complaint about themselves.

Michael: Hari, I appreciated what you said about how this is painful. We can talk about it with some fun and some humor, and as we talk about the chief complaints for all three of the instincts, we'll see how this is. very deep and something that people often feel a lot of insecurity about.

And so to have a language with which to speak about these chief complaints, I have found.

Enormously helpful.

Rasanath: There is also a feeling with the instinct. I don't know what to do with the complaint. There is almost a sense of like, this is just how I operate. I don't know what else to do with it. Um, we'll talk more about that with the sexual and the social as well.

The other thing with the self-preservation and how it expresses self-preservation dominant types, uh, they love routines. There is a way in which I keep a certain routine about my life and I'm very unwilling to disrupt it. My mom is a self-preservation too, and I, one of the complaints about her, especially from people who are not the same instinct, is, I wish she traveled more, or I wish she, she had excitement to go out and do other things, and I don't gravitate towards it.

I feel like if I do something different. Then my natural routine gets upset. And so I'm not willing to go out of my routine.

Michael: Very helpful. And, and just like you emphasized before with the different arenas of life, if you're somebody who has a lot of routines, it does not necessarily mean that you are self-preservation instinct.

The investigation that's required is where is that coming from? what's the reason behind the routine?

Rasanath: So let us continue on this journey into the second of the instincts that we have mentioned, and that is the sexual instinct.

Hari Prasada: So the sexual instinct by contrast to the self preservation instinct, and it's not exactly opposite because all three are so unique and distinct from one another. But when Snat was talking about opposites, this is kind of what comes to mind because it's so directly in contrast to the self-preservation dominant instinct.

It is a bit the other side of the coin where the self-preservation dominant instinct thinks I have limited energy, so how do I preserve it? The sexual dominant thinks I have so much energy, I have unlimited energy. How do I unleash it? It's going to eat me up if I don't unleash it. And that is, you can see already how.

Different, interesting dynamics can arise between those two, right? But that's true for, again, social dominant instinct as well, because they're looking for something very different. We'll talk about that. It's not only the complexity around self-preservation dominance and sexual dominance, we want to be very clear.

It's not like, oh, don't pair those two together. They're two opposite from each other. No, no, no, no. But you can see how these dynamics will arise. So I am so conscious, I'm mostly unconscious, but I have some consciousness around the fact that like I gotta get things out of my system. I want to have experiences.

I want to move things and use what I've been given, and that is my sexual energy, which can actually be channeled very nicely as I spoke about a few minutes ago. But at its default, it's just, I've got the energy, get it out. Who's with me? Who can match my energy? Come, come. I want to find the most interesting, dynamic, exciting person and have experiences

Michael: with them.

So this one, you said they're often called the Magnetic Instinct. So there's a magnetism to people with sexual dominant instincts. They're about vitality, and there's a charisma that you can feel with them. Very much so,

Hari Prasada: yeah. And by the way, what there is a also a very strong, pervasive misunderstanding about the sexual dominance.

That they are the one-on-one instinct or the intimacy instinct. And I mention I'm looking for the person who can match my energy and who I can have exciting experiences with. Yes, it can be one OnOne, but it can also be groups of people. And it's no more one-on-one. Than the other. Instincts is certainly no more intimate than the other instincts.

every dominant instinct, let's say, has the need for intimacy and for one-on-one quality time. And if you ask any of them, we know that we can, we tend to go deeper if we're at a certain consciousness level or if we have a certain level of connection with people, we tend to go deeper one-on-one than in a group, unless the whole group is oriented in that way.

But people like one-on-one time, that's not the domain of the sexual instinct. And we have to understand that when that's being referred to, that is not a helpful understanding to have. Again, this is so pervasive, so sexual dominance are looking for whatever experiences, whatever people one-on-one with groups to just.

Have a blast. Feel free. As Ana was saying, break free of constraints. So there's a real intensity with this one. Oh yes.

Rasanath: Even if you look into the eyes of someone who has a sexual dominant instinct, you will see a piercing glance. I think this is a very good example to understand how much the energy is present in the body language in very subtle ways.

When you are in front of a a person who is sexual dominant and they look at you, it just by the sheer gland, there's a certain intensity that you can experience. There is a penetrating, like I want to connect intensity that comes, that if you pay very close attention to, you can feel it,

Hari Prasada: or it can be offputting, like, stop standing in my way.

Not always about connecting, but it can be clearing obstacles and constraints. The intensity is the thing that is always there. And when I was speaking with, so I spoke before this podcast about how Russ helped me to see my own instinctual stack or teacher at the Enneagram Institute, Russ Hudson. He was so helpful and in no time, it took him two seconds to help me out because we had this question, well, could it be a self preservation dominant instinct?

And he was like, you're definitely not pulled back enough for that. No way. Self-preservation dominant is the most introverted, even amongst extroverted persons. And so he was like, no, you're definitely not pulled back enough for that.

And with the sexual dominant he was saying. You don't have, because we were thinking, well, could it be maybe a sexual dominant? Then it's like, you definitely don't have enough of that intensity. It's much different energy. So the sexual dominant, you can pick it out right away if you're sharp, if you really get attuned to these things, you can see, oh yeah, that's the intensity.

I see it. I feel it. It's emanating from the

Michael: person, and I can share as someone who is a sexual dominant myself, that it's not only the gaze that people are seeing of me, it's when I walk into a situation, I can actually feel that gaze myself, and there's a particular energy with other people who have some sort of strong energy to them.

and it's male or female, regardless of my own sexual preferences. It's towards both male and female. And there was this one experience where I walked into a room and we were all standing and facing, and there was this really tall, strong man with a ponytail. And it was like my interest in this person was just like, there was literally a laser.

And I was like, this is my sexual instinct. And it had nothing to do with being sexually attracted to this person, but there was just this magnetic attraction between me and him

and maybe he was a sexual dominant as well,

Hari Prasada: very likely. That's a fantastic piece of this and such a wonderful personal example. Yeah, that's exactly right. There's an antenna. For that other energy, and especially for those who have a sexual dominant, or at least who have more of that energy coming out.

So maybe it's their second, but usually it's towards other sexual dominant instincts. And the antenna is just like, okay, where is it? Where is it? Where is it? And then boom, okay, here we go. We can match each other's energy.

Michael: So that's for people. And then that's also for experiences.

Rasanath: Also with the sexual dominant instinct,

you are gifted with high energy. There is a way in which You can go for a very long time.

You can perform at a certain level for a very long time. It's sustained intensity. Others might find hard to match up, but it's also a gift in the sense that you can go for very long periods of time without necessarily resting the same intensity level.

Michael: So we were talking about routines earlier. Sexual dominance may also have a lot of routines.

Their routines are just gonna be a lot more intense than the self-preservation routines. This is not a personal reference at all.

Rasanath: Also, no. Of people who have sexual dominant instinct, who just love workout routines and there is a way in which their workout routines are, it's not meant to actually necessarily keep, I.

You know, okay, I need to be fit. It's just I'm gonna test the limits of my capacity. My workout routines are usually I need to like, I need to push the ante, like I need to lift a certain amount of weights. There's certain intensity about how I perform my routine. It's designed for intensity.

Michael: Yes. And then there's the other added component of life is all about attraction for a sexual dominant.

And so there's often a lot of time spent in making myself attractive. And so you'll see when you go to a gym, especially one where there's an intense energy to that gym, a lot of sexual dominance dominating that environment. So another thing that I'm recalling here from some notes that I had taken in conversation with both of you was that for sexual dominant, when there is presence, I'm a trailblazer.

When I'm without presence, I'm simply blazing.

Hari Prasada: Yeah, the sexual dominant is the most flamboyant of the three dominant instincts. It's very much broadcasting. Look at me, look at me, look at me. And again, putting out my energy and drawing people's attention. So when I'm present, it means I'm conscious, I'm aware, I'm grounded, I'm intentional,

So with presence, I can trailblaze into new territories. I can use the gift of this explorer, adventure, quality, and the kind of grit that comes with that.

Michael: the neurosis.

The two questions we have for sexual are, am I experiencing everything that life has to offer, and am I living up to my charisma? What's the chief complaint that people have about the sexual instinct? If that wasn't obvious enough already,

Hari Prasada: the chief complaint about the sexual dominant instinct is, you are too much.

It's too loud, and I am struggling to just handle your presence. It's so intense. Tone it down. Now, this is also a point of great pain for the sexual dominant instinct, just as we said about the self-preservation dominant instinct. Sexual instinct persons feel like I'm just being how I am. I wasn't trying to clobber you or be too much for you.

And yet, without awareness, the way that they come across, it's so intense that it doesn't leave space and it can make other people really feel like, ah, help me, help me. So it takes that awareness to really be able to see what is the effect that I'm having and what are the alternatives.

There is another way. You don't have to change your being the way that you are is not the problem. That's a gift. But to be able to see how it's playing out in you, why it's playing out in you, and. How it's affecting other people. Then you can channel it and modulate and use the energy in a very healthy way, in a very wonderful way, so it doesn't overwhelm

Michael: other people.

I would say this is definitely, as a sexual instinct, one of my biggest insecurities in my whole life is just this feeling of I'm too much for people, especially in settings where it's not valued, So one of the, I would say, what felt like growing pains as we started working together at Uphill when I joined you guys was figuring out how we all will work together.

And I felt this a lot like I could keep going, like I could just go and push new things forward and. I had this impulse, this urge to keep doing that. It just felt like that's my nature. And then I was also starting to notice, well,

it must be really intense. And I know it, it can be intense for other people dealing with me to feel like, well, this person's just not gonna stop. until we fall over, But it doesn't feel like that to me. It's not, I'm not tired.

Hari Prasada: Beautiful. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that.

For the sexual dominant person, they have so much, they just want to use it and, and they, they have to use what they have, but in a constructive way that's sensitive to where other people are at. You mentioned also where it's not valued. I think this is a really interesting thing, so I. Our society tends to value the sexual dominant instinct more than the others.

If you look at the people who are famous, they have a lot of the drive of the sexual instinct in most cases. And if you look at fields that draw our attention naturally and who's prominent in them business, Hollywood,

Wall Street sports. You even mentioned your, both of your gurus who are famous,

Michael: but they're not in the typical way that people get famous in society, but there's something about their charisma and their energy that actually allows them to be that way.

Hari Prasada: Exactly, exactly. And it can be used in that way for the greatest good, but it also carries this other side to it, which is like it becomes just a spectacle and you see. So many celebrities who are just flexing their sexual instinct. And then you see people posing on magazine covers and literally just oozing the sexual instinct out.

Look at me, look at me, look at me. I'm sexy, aren't I? It's so primal. It's so primal. It's so un attenuated and not channeled. It's just giving people what they want at their most base level without examination, without understanding

So we have to actually reign that in and use it positively and also be aware. Arguments very intense with sexual dominance, so that also has to be understood and, and. Tempered in a way that will best serve people. Okay. The energy is not the problem. The energy is wonderful, but then it has to be conscious.

We have to be conscious of the energy so that it's not governing us. Okay, great. So let's move on to the

Michael: third of the three instincts that we've mentioned, and that is the social instinct.

Rasanath: The social instinct is about matching energy. I look at how much is coming my way and I want to meet that energy where it needs to be met.

So the social instinct has a lot to do with a sense of belonging, adaptation, and contribution. There is a way in which am I putting the same amount as what others are putting in energetically.

I'm also very conscious about status in the room. There is a sense of, well, who is in the room and am I, do I match that? There is some preoccupation with that. And again, attunement is a big part. Like warmth is a big part of the social dominant. You experience a certain receptivity

Hari Prasada: Now when Raanana speaks about meeting and matching energy, that is very different from the meeting and matching energy that we've talked about with the sexual dominant, as a sexual dominant. I would be looking for people to meet my energy, to match my energy at a high, high octane level.

here, what we're talking about is receiving other people's energy and then putting out an energy that adapts nicely to that. and again, this is so unconscious, as Raath was saying, that I'm angling towards what will best have us be connected. How can I adapt to what you are doing so that we fit in with each other?

Michael: So for the neurosis questions, for the social we have, what's the need in the room? How am I being received and how is it going to land?

Hari Prasada: Yeah, I'm constantly aware of, and I'm not even aware that I'm aware of this, who's who and how do I sort of maneuver within the dynamics of the group, and I'm always looking for that feeling of belonging.

Now of course, all types are, and all persons are, whether you have a social dominant instinct or not. But this is just amped up and central in a way that's different.

Michael: And with that same framing of presence, less presence with presence, I'm a team player for the social and without presence, I'm a team owner. Can you say a little more about that?

Hari Prasada: Yeah. When I'm present, I want to be part of a team. When I'm not present, I want to make sure that the team elevates me, that it's, instead of me elevating the team and serving the team as a servant, even as a servant leader, if I'm the team lead, let's say I am concerned that the team serves me and elevates me.

And so I figure out how things need to be done so that my status is enhanced. Now, this feels a lot like certain personalities. Especially when we think about the Enneagram. For those who are not familiar with the nine types on the Enneagram one type, the achiever matches very much this where I'm able to kind of get ahead, I'm able to move people and even use people if I'm not conscious and present and healthy to elevate my own status.

as you get more familiar with the different dimensions of the Enneagram, you'll see more resonance and some types enhance, or some instincts enhance the energy of certain types and some of them go against it and create more nuance and more polarity. We have to understand that it's coming from a bit of a different place and it manifests a little bit differently, although there may be a lot of overlap and togetherness with some of these energies.

So as Michael had raised earlier, we have to see where it's coming from. Identify that there may be somebody who's a sexual three, for example, a sexual dominant three achiever on the Enneagram, but they may mistake themselves from being a social dominant because they're thinking, yeah, yeah, I know how to like figure out who's who.

I'm doing that all the time and I get ahead. So we just have to tease these things out and it is subtle and over time with more understanding, more immersion, more practice, we will get the subtleties and become more and more accurate and sharp in the usage. So for the social, what is the chief complaint?

I don't know if I really know this person because they're always so nice and they're always putting a smile on and being warm and receptive and meeting my needs, but I'm not sure what's behind that smile. Do I know what that person's really going through is? Is the connection in a way that is substantive or is it so that that person can feel like they belong, they fit in and they're contributing?

Rasanath: The other thing with a social dominant instinct is that you also feel torn, you're trying to meet everybody who is in your life, you get this experience that.

My energy is very split So if you are a social dominant in a relationship with a sexual dominant, you match me. Come on, meet me energetically. And the social dominant is trying to match a lot of people at the same time who are demanding the certain amount of energy.

Hari Prasada: That that also brings up another point that I had touched on earlier, but which is really important to emphasize. It's not only the self-preservation dominance that are overwhelmed by the sexual dominance, right? The social dominant, we're talking about matching and it can sound as if well, yeah, yeah, if you have a sexual dominance, I could match that.

If you have a self-preservation dom, I can match that. Uh, not exactly. So seamless. It's not so easy. I am matching in terms of what I have that. Can work the best. I can make it work, but I also get tired. I also find that, oh my God, I don't have that kind of energy as the sexual, and certainly not all the time and I can't just put on a show nonstop like that.

That's not me. So the social dominant can be also very sensitive. How am I being perceived? And also I'm trying to be warm and trying to like be inviting and you're coming down and like that is, oh, that's so

Rasanath: intense. I don't know what to do. It can also go the other way. you might think that, alright, so with the self preservation dominant, that might be easy because I just need to match.

The interesting thing that we have to note about the social dominant is there is a certain floor and a certain ceiling. I operate in a range. So if the, if the self preservation dominant is not meeting my floor, I sort of become uncomfortable.

Michael: there's an emphasis on community and, and connection and warmth.

And we need, movement in order for some of that stuff to happen. So it's not that we can just go down to zero here.

Rasanath: So there is this range that I operate in, and so when it's above the ceiling, it's hard to match when it's below the floor. I think I'm very uncomfortable because I don't know, I'm not getting the basic amount that is necessary to feel connected.

So that's something important to understand about the social Do.

Michael: the effect that the social dominant has on other people can be that they can even feel used. They can feel like deceived and used because the social dominant is about themselves. But making it look like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I have what you need.

Hari Prasada: Like I can contribute, i can fit in, and there's a disguise to that, which is very unhealthy and unhelpful. So without presence, this is very bad. It creates a lot of negativity.

Michael: Well, I certainly don't experience either of you with that description, but I do appreciate the nuance that you both are bringing to particularly this discussion of the social instinct.

And one of the reasons is because you both have social dominant instincts.

Rasanath: Just sharing the struggles as a social dominant.

Michael: Excellent. So I really appreciate the nuance and depth that we've been able to go in for each of these three. Now, I wanna do something where we go a little bit faster, and just so that we can highlight for a single personality type, what it looks like for three different dominant instincts.

Let's look at the example of the type three, the achiever. What does a type three typically look like when they have a self pres dominant versus a sexual dominant versus a social dominant?

Hari Prasada: So a three with a self-preservation dominant instinct is somebody who is. Naturally extroverted by dint of the three energy itself.

So the personality type brings an energy of extroversion, but that is counterbalanced in a strong way by the very introverted leaning instinct of self preservation. So I feel more pulled back and I like to sort of pull the strings from behind the scenes so I can run a business. I can like, you know, create spreadsheets and make sure that everything runs and nobody has to see it, because it's exhausting for me to be in front of people all the time like that.

But I know what needs to be done and I'm profiting off of it, and I like that. So there's a different feeling than the classical three who is more extroverted, but it's like, okay, you know what? Let's somebody else be the face. I will be a little bit more pulled back, but still people know that they can't do without me.

I'm the success here. Okay.

Michael: They can trace the glory back, but it's not front and center.

Hari Prasada: Yes, exactly. And sometimes they also like to be front and center, but it's less of the natural tendency as with the other threes. So they can do it and they may like it, but there can be some overwhelm and some resistance to it and, and it's not that they're geared as much that way.

Michael: I'm thinking that they probably like having articles written about them as opposed to being presented on stage for something that they would then be in front of a lot of people for.

Hari Prasada: Yeah, I think that's generally true. Again, like a self pres three can recognize the need of the hour and perform, and they still have that in them and they can adapt to the circumstance and get a thrill from the validation.

And especially when we understand how the other instincts play out and how they can use the other instincts. It's not strict, but that is a helpful portrait At a very

Rasanath: basic level, I have come across a lot of self preservation threes, one who thinks that they, they may not be threes who actually think that they are the humble threes.

I'm, I'm, I'm necessarily humble, but I, it's not necessarily humility as much as the feeling that it's too much energy to expend if I was front and center. So I'm just not gonna do that.

Michael: Okay, good. So what about sexual threes? What do they look like?

Hari Prasada: So the sexual dominant three is very classical feel.

I mean, this is in your face, making things happen out there, achieving like anything. Now, they may also not be achieving like anything and be beating the crap out of themselves like anything because they feel like, ah, this is what I'm supposed to be doing and I wanna unleash and it's just not working my way.

So some people discount themselves because they're not getting what they want. But the point is the tendency, the drive is there. And if you look at famous threes in the world, as I mentioned, that many of the famous people are sexual dominance. That's that's very primary even. And certainly threes are predominant.

So sexual threes, that's like as prominent as it gets. And you have so many athletes who are like. I can do anything. You can do anything to motivational speakers and they bring that, that kind of like, yeah, put your hands in the air. That's what it's like. You know, make some noise and do it for me, but really for you because I'm making you so much better.

So clap for me. You can do it. You can do it. You can do it. Don't you love me? Now

Michael: I'm building you up. All the classic scenes from Jerry McGuire have a lot of sexual three energy in it.

Hari Prasada: Oh yes. Perfect, perfect, perfect. Yeah, this is absolutely spot on. Yeah, it's that way of like anything's possible. I did it.

You can too. Don't you think?

Michael: I'm great. Okay. And then how about the social three? How are they different from the two that we just described?

Hari Prasada: The social three, it's also classical in a way. A little bit more like it's all about modulating to exactly what will be most helpful in any situation, and it's a little bit more kind of sensing than like bringing my energy.

So the threes naturally are sensing and kind of seeing what will be valued, what can I do? But the sexual dominant threes, they lead off with like, I know I can make this work. If I just bring my full energy, people will love it. So some of that sensing energy gets overtaken sometimes. Not always, but it happens that that can be overtaken for the social threes.

It's very, very careful and cautious and very like. Okay, what's gonna work now? Okay, I can adjust like this and adjust like this. Again, all threes are doing this, which is what makes it a bit classical and social dominance are extroverted. By the way, if that hasn't been clear. Social dominance are extroverted by nature.

So the three energy with the social dominant energy makes it more extroverted, which again is classical, but it's a little bit like emphasizing the polish and like how to do this in the cleanest, smoothest way and rise to the top with everybody just thinking it happened effortlessly and wonderfully.

Rasanath: There is also for the social three, I am concerned about bringing people along. I like to be the people person. So if you are a social three in an organization. You bring in the intensity. You want to achieve success, you want to climb up the ladder, but there is a way in which you wanna climb up the ladder and be known as the person who is the people person too.

There is a nuance to it, and I like being like amongst the three types. I more like being liked by people. I don't wanna step on toes. I'm very concerned about stepping on toes. I want people to come with me when I climb up the status

Hari Prasada: again. All threes have that orientation. They want to be liked and they're, they want to be careful and they're sensing what will work and they pull back and they adapt.

So this is so nuanced, but the social three is the most like that.

Michael: So we've been focusing mostly on what it. Is for a dominant instinct.

So let's look at the blind spot now. So when somebody has a blind spot in an instinct, what does that really mean? I can speak for

Rasanath: the self preservation, practical experience of it for the self preservation. When you have a self preservation blind spot, there is an unconscious neglect of the most basic things of life, like eating a breakfast.

I'm not too concerned about eating breakfast until I become really hungry. It's only when you know, it has to go to a certain kind of extreme when I actually pay attention to the basic elements. So there is a neglect of potential, like bodily needs. I have to use the bathroom. I had been wanting to use the bathroom for the past three hours, but I just keep putting that away until it's like, oh my gosh, my bladder is really bursting.

I need to use the bathroom. There is a certain way in which I don't pay attention to the basic things of life. I almost neglect it and I'm only going to pay attention to it until it becomes very important. It's pressing on me. And when that tends to happen, it usually tends to happen when there is some sort of like physical sickness and then I have to, I'm sort of forced to pay attention to, okay, I have to really take care of my body.

Hari Prasada: So one thing that's important to understand is it's not that self-preservation blind spot. People are more sickly than others or that like.

They have more proneness to disaster. It's just that they're less naturally concerned with things that then come back and bite them and in varying degrees of severity and different, according to different people's preferences, tastes life experiences. So some self-preservation blind spot people may be adamant about breakfast every day and others may not.

Michael: Yes, I'm one of those people that is a self-preservation blind spot and adamant about breakfast, but it's not so much about the making sure I'm going to survive kind of thing. There's activities and energy that needs to be had and expended, and therefore breakfast is an important part of that.

Plus it's about balance and nutrition and being attractive through quality eating. So there's other stuff going on. But I would say having breakfast every day is something that is a strong, strong focus. For me, strong,

Rasanath: it's very similar to how we talked about an exercise routine. The orientation towards the exercise routine is very different.

So for the, uh, self-preservation blind spot, there are reasons why I might approach certain self-preservation elements of life. But my connection to them is coming from a very different place.

Hari Prasada: I don't give myself as much comfort.

That's a big thing. Now, I also may have my indulgences and may like pendulum swing and overcompensate, but the tendency on autopilot is I can sacrifice my comfort for the sake of something else that is more juicy to me. Right? The social and the sexual elements of life. And when I say sexual, of course, I mean the energetic, not about the act of sex itself or anything to do with sexuality, but that energy in the body that is about intensity, breaking boundaries and unleashing.

I have, so that feels juicy to me. Whereas the self pre stuff, it's like, Ugh, I gotta just check boxes so I do the bare minimum of what I have to do. That's really what it comes down to for a self pre blind spot is like, yeah, I check the boxes. I have some pride in it that I do these things. I take care of myself, but I'd rather be doing other things.

And I don't always do the best job. I don't always afford myself the comforts. And when something comes back to bite me, when some neglect comes back to bite me, I may be once bitten twice shy. So that does not mean that I change my instinctual stack. This is very important. It is a fixed stack. It is the wiring of my personality.

And you will see this just manifesting differently according to your stage of life, your life experience, and especially your consciousness level. But the stack doesn't change. It's just that when you bring things more into balance, it feels better for you and for other people. But the stack is still the same and you will still have the gifts of the dominant and have to watch out for the pitfalls of the blind spot.

So if I had, you know, a, a real illness that did occur because of neglect of my body, then I might be really intense that I'm not gonna let that happen again. And that does not mean that I become a self predominant instinct from it being a blind spot.

Michael: Super helpful. I think a key word here is prioritization that we shared earlier on.

It's not that we don't have these things when we're a blind spot, it's just that it's not the highest priority. And so. To help us become more integrated and healthy, we can bring more focus to our instinctual blind spots and then they can climb up in terms of prioritization to be closer to the others.

Hari Prasada: Yeah. And for my own life, I can give an example, similar to what Ana was speaking about, I'm also a self-preservation blind spot. And it is a blind spot. It's not just the tertiary instinct, the third in the stack. It's really a blind spot that I have to watch out for. And when I was in high school, I wrote a poem one night, like really late at night about how I hate sleep.

I just hate it. Why do I have to sleep and waste my time? This is nonsense. What a curse. And in high school, I tried to not sleep like I got away with four hour nights often, and. Then I would also compensate and sleep for really long periods at different times. But I could get away with four hour nights pretty frequently without feeling so much Ill effect.

When I got to college, that shifted dramatically and I was shocked. I'm like, I'm not an old man yet. What's going on here? But I couldn't do it anymore. Like it had bitten me in some way, and I, at that point, I realized I need a certain amount of sleep. Then it was seven and a half hours. Now it's seven hours.

But at that time, I realized anytime I didn't get the requisite amount of sleep, I would just be irritable. I would not be. Focused and I would not be able to give my best to myself or others. So it has stayed with me that I have to be pretty serious about getting the right amount of sleep and I have fears, even though I'm a self-preservation blind spot.

I would still write that poem again. Why do I have to sleep? Even though people would mistake me for being very self pre about my rest because I know the consequences really crappy for me. Do I always get enough rest? No. That's another thing, but I really try.

Michael: Yeah. So that I think does have to do with your self pres blind spot that there's a prioritization of other things and so it suffers.

That's the natural wiring that you have. Okay, great. So let's go to the sexual blind

Rasanath: spot. What is going on there for someone with a sexual blind spot and going back again to how the sexual instinct works? It's about adventure, it's about breaking boundaries, it's about broadcasting. And if you have a sexual blind spot, you may notice that your capacity for risk taking might be limited.

You don't wanna push the boundaries too much.

Hari Prasada: They feel like, don't rock the boat. Don't rock the boat, don't rock the boat. That's the motto, like just kind of cruise through coast through, do whatever you have to do, but please don't make me get out of this comfort zone.

And especially if it's a self-preservation dominant and a sexual blind spot, you'll see that's enhanced many, many times over. But there's a way in which like, I can't quite start my engine. It's like I just don't have that revving up that other people seem to have to make life changes to make significant shifts and to take risks.

The sexual blind spot is very much like, let me keep things as status quo as I can.

Not so many risks.

Michael: So if somebody with a sexual blind spot was gonna work on themselves to reprioritize that, what might that look like?

Rasanath: Being able to step out of your comfort zone, literally. And of course it can't be done recklessly, but there are areas in your life where you really begin to feel very constrained.

And it's important to actually acknowledge and step out of the comfort zone. Experiment is the word that comes to mind, you know, calculated experiments. And the reason why the word calculated is important is if you do have, uh, sexual instinct, blind spot. It'd be hard to experiment drastically. Sometimes that can be helpful to break the pattern, but if you do have that blind spot, you don't necessarily wanna stretch that far.

But what will be important is to do very calculated experiments that take you outside of the comfort zone,

Hari Prasada: but remember the purpose to get more in touch with who I am, to get closer to myself and to remove the ego that covers me. This is not about get on a motorcycle and have a blast, you know, like feel the wind in your hair.

That's not what we're talking about. Okay? You, it may be nice sometimes to be in a convertible and feel the wind in your hair, and we can relate to the sexual instinct in that way, but that's not the point. That has nothing to do with what we're talking about.

Rasanath: Actually, somebody who has a sexual blind spot will never break free in that particular way.

Haad, as you said, it's quite possible that someone who has a sexual dominant or a sexual secondary, when they have been suppressed externally for a very long time, you'll see that their response to that is extreme. Like there is, I just wanna like, so that is actually an indication potentially that you don't have a sexual blind spot, if that's the extreme way of breaking free from life.

Hari Prasada: Well, it can also just be from so much suppression or so much neglect that it comes out in a very gross way. You know, like, okay, going to the tattoo parlor, I'm doing my whole body today. That can happen. It's not likely, but it can be there if the neglect is so strong that I feel like, okay, this is the easy way to get out of the neglect zone.

Michael: So I think what we're talking about here with a sexual blind spot might be someone who is, you know, having a hard time really promoting what they're doing at work, for example. Or they have a cause that they care a lot about and they're interested in seeing it take off, but they just can't get their engine started to put themselves and their cause out there and so they're not getting those kinds of results.

And so it can be helpful to see that about myself, that that is a natural wiring I come with. And then what do I need to do in order to reprioritize some of those things?

Hari Prasada: Exactly. It's about what are the things that I'm afraid to do that I know are meant to help me

Michael: grow. Okay. And so with a social blind spot, what do we observe there with

Hari Prasada: the social blind spot?

It's a clumsiness. It's an awkwardness with people. It's like, I don't understand why people are the way they are. They have all these demands and you know, like they have emotions about all kinds of things. I have them too, but my own emotions and demands are enough for me. Like, that's plenty. I really don't need yours.

Thank you very much. And it is like, you know, I have three legs kind of a feeling where I'm not smooth. There's something which feels stilted and uncomfortable in many of my interactions and can be there in relationships. Like at large, it can really become like, I don't know how to quite invest in relationship because it's too cumbersome to me.

People are just too much. There's a reason for that. People are too much. But the way that I interpret that and the way that I take it is in such a way that I don't get what I need and other people don't get what they need and I'm not serving anybody. It just becomes painful. It just becomes really painful.

Michael: Very helpful. So as we start to bring this conversation towards a close, let's talk about what's at stake here. If we don't work on these instincts and try to harmonize them, what happens if we haven't done this work? And these instincts don't come into balance

Rasanath: as you use the word balance. The instincts.

When we understand the energetic pull of each of the instincts, they're naturally meant to give a balance to life. And so when we don't pay attention. On how to balance the instincts that we have been given. These are energies we have been given. These gifts is just like you're underutilizing one of the energies and overutilizing others, which then naturally puts life in a state of imbalance.

It produces stresses. And sometimes we can manage those stresses, but eventually they start to erode our energy. And then the other thing that we also talked about is, uh, conflict, more conflict arises. Our teacher, Russ, very emphatically, states that more conflict arises in relationship because of the instincts than because of the types.

So if your instincts are more balanced, there is a way in which you can understand. Other, there is, uh, energetic permission and an intentional harnessing of an energy, even when it's not your dominant instinct to bring that energy, to create space for that energy. There is also an openness to be affected by an energy that is not your dominant, which then helps in building more deeper relationships.

Hari Prasada: Yeah, we have all of these gifts that are just untapped and we overuse gifts so that we drain them of their potential and we underutilize gifts so that we never actually see what they're meant for.

And we don't understand ourselves. We don't understand each other. And so how can we really serve one another and be fulfilled? This is critical for fulfillment. We have to understand the different dimensions, the different inner workings in ourselves and and in the people that we care about. And we want to care about everybody because everybody is a self, and the true self sees with that vision and honors every living being.

Every living being, so to say, yeah, well, it is what it is. That's just resigning yourself to mediocrity. That's the case with any kind of work on ourselves, and the instincts is no exception. With the instincts we see, oh my goodness, I'm coming across as so strong. I'm really stifling people. I'm really causing issues.

I'm creating hurt or I'm not giving enough. I have so much more to give and I'm just holding myself back artificially outta fear, or I am a little bit putting on a show and not having substantial relationship with others that is meaningful So why would we want a life like that?

We want to be conscious and use what we've been given and invite others to do the same. That's the whole thing.

Michael: I'm feeling very inspired by what you've shared here because there's a lot at stake as we think about the instincts. And when people approach the Enneagram, they often just look at the nine types I can speak from personal experience as it relates to my own growth. I think I experienced as much growth, understanding my instinct and working on that as I did with the type. So for our last question, what are next steps for people who have now heard this podcast?

They might not be clear about their instinctual stack. They might have some sense of it from what we've shared, but this stuff is so nuanced and complex and it is complicated by how the type, the Enneagram type that you have intersects with the instincts. So what are next steps for people here?

Hari Prasada: I would reiterate not to get lost in certain tendencies that are not reliably indicative of the instincts.

In other words. You may be somebody who's all about your cup of coffee in the morning, first thing, and you might not be a self predominant. I know tons of people who have self pres routines I've seen people speak on panels as a self-preservation dominant instinct because they're so into comfort or something else about the self-preservation dominant instinct.

But meanwhile, they're putting out tons of energy and they're clearly not self-preservation, dominant instinct persons. So first thing is recognize this is more about energy than anything else. Then you will see, oh, there's also more that comes with that energy, but don't get lost in these tendencies.

That can come from different places. See, first of all, what is your relationship with energy and how is that showing up in your body? Am I somebody who is needing to unleash because I have too much of it? Am I somebody who's needing to pull back because I have too little of it? Am I somebody who just wants to receive other people's energies?

That tells you more than any of these other aspects of the instincts? So start there and always come back to that. Then the other stuff is vital in so far as it's contextualized to that piece first, foundationally that cannot be emphasized enough. So introspect and think, what is my relationship with energy and how is that showing up in me?

Old people in your life? Hey, am I am? Somebody who's a little intense, am I somebody who's a little bit muted? Am I somebody who's a little hard to figure out because I just always have a smile on my face and you don't really know what I'm thinking? And where is that coming from? How does that relate to my relationship with energy?

These things have to be brought back to that. That's really the core. And then you'll see from there, how do I have a more healthy and balanced relationship with energy and with the energy I'm putting out or failing to put out to other people?

Anything you would share in this point

Rasanath: about next steps, given how subtle and nuanced. The instincts are when we really pay attention to it, it heightens our level of self-awareness.

And in paying close attention to it, you will realize a lot of things about yourself. You will eventually get to understand what your dominant instinct is, but it is going to force open an entire channel of awareness that potentially doesn't exist right now.

Hari Prasada: And it will be very helpful to see what that stack is, the secondary instinct and the tertiary instinct that we don't want to be a blind spot, but which by default is a blind spot.

And we can see more insights about how the stack plays out. For example, the secondary instinct is a support for a, for a vacation from the dominant. That means that I use my secondary instinct in such a way to enhance my experience with the dominant instinct. So like if I'm a sexual dominant with a social second, I use my ability to fit in and contribute so that I can broadcast my energy and get more people to fill me up with this intensity.

And the vacation from is when I get so sick and tired of just like all the time putting out, putting out, putting out my energy. I just, I need to take a vacation. Let me just chill with some nice, warm people and that'll be great. So, so the secondary is a support for, or a vacation from, and it's, it works both ways.

And then of course we spoke a lot about the tertiary, which becomes the blind spot. So be aware of all these dynamics we're building our self understanding. It comes gradually the more we're aware of these dimensions.

Michael: Beautiful. Well, the only thing I would share on top of that is it can be really helpful to talk to people who are very well versed in the Enneagram about your instinctual stack, and particularly how it relates to your type and to be able to flesh out some of these nuances.

This is not a journey that any of us. Would've been able to take a loan. So to be in association with, with others and to get guidance from others as we're doing the work to really understand ourselves is critical. So thank you both for this conversation. Thank you both for teaching me about the instincts over the years, and I'm sure there's a lot more to come on that.

So very grateful to both of you and thank you everyone for your attention and your presence throughout this conversation.