Type 1 in the Body Center: Intuition, Rightness, and the Squeeze of Perfection

Michael: Hello, everyone. Hello, Hari and Rasanath. It's great to be back with you guys. Today, we are going to be covering the type one in the body center, so we can get right into it. And Hari Prasad, could you get us started by sharing what does it mean again to be a body center type, and what is the one's unique relationship to the body center?

Hari Prasada: So the body center types are in tune with the way the world is moving. They have a gut sense of how things move within the world and a strong desire to move the world . So the one's unique relationship with this Is that they have an intuition, a gut sense of what is right and what is wrong, something that they feel in their bones, and they want to move the world accordingly.

They want to move in the world and have the world move according to what is right and what is countering that which is wrong. 

Michael: And so what are the gifts that the one has that they can bring to the world as a result of their presence in the body center? 

Rasanath: one of the most important aspects of the physical body is posture, learning how to walk straight, feeling like I'm standing erect and walking erect.

The body gives us an experience of what alignment feels like. When you walk with a straight back, there is a sense of alignment. There is a physical feeling of alignment. For the ones, the same feeling of alignment is much more universal, much more cosmic, in the sense I want to be aligned with what is universally right.

And this is a gift that the ones have because in their gut, especially when they're healthy, but also even when they go down the levels of consciousness, the connection to what is right is very strongly felt, very strongly experienced. I share how once a one told me that they're not trying to be right.

They're really not trying to be right. She was closing her eyes, and she was very sincere about how she conveyed it. She said, "I'm not trying to be right. I just am." And it's funny when you hear it, but when you understand the inner experience, there is a sense of complete alignment with what is universally true and right, and the ones feel it in the gut.

It's just that as they go down the levels of consciousness, how they express, how they respond to that starts to get distorted. 

Hari Prasada: Even the inputs are getting distorted as they go down the levels of consciousness. The sense of what is right is getting distorted, and as they go further and further away from the self, the sense of rightness becomes more and more abstracted from actual objective universal rightness, that which is most beneficial for all.

Michael: And one point of clarification, because when we think about right and wrong and morality and knowing what's the good thing to do, it might be easy to think that this is coming from the head. This is actually, like, my thoughts are driving that understanding. So how should we understand the one's presence in the body center then?

Hari Prasada: It's coming from a sense of what's right, and I will back that up by logic. I'll employ my head to justify it, but that's not the origin . It's a sense in me that this is right, and therefore I must do it. It's like an urge. The body center is full of urges to do, to make things happen based on the inputs that we receive from the world.

And so I'm getting some read on the world that this is what would be right, and then I'm moved to respond, and I use logic to justify it. So one's like to think I'm a very sensible, rational person. That is more after the fact. That is not the origin of where they're coming from. Of course, education is needed, and of course, we need to use our minds at all times.

I'm not saying otherwise, and that will impact the one if they're open, if they're healthier, if they're impressionable. However, there's something ontological, if you will. There's something in the setup, in the structure of their being, which is to pick up in a sensorial way what is right as an urge to then make it happen, to fix what is wrong, and so on.

Michael: Very, very helpful. I'm thinking how this center is also called the gut center sometimes. You can think of it as the body center or the gut center, and we talk in our common language about having a, a gut sense of things. And so the ones have a particular orientation with that. 

Hari Prasada: And the gut sense changes based on knowledge

In other words, when one is receptive and becoming healthier based on knowledge of what is reality, and especially knowledge of the real self, which is the ultimate reality that we want to go towards, the reality of the self and everyone else as a self, a spiritual reality, then the gut sensations change.

They actually move accordingly. Now I'm picking up different things than I was picking up before. It's like I was picking up static before, and I was responding to the static feeling like this is right, and now I'm starting to pick up the actual signal. 

Michael: What are some of the challenges that the one faces as a result of being in the body center?

Rasanath: The decision is made even before it's backed up, right? The sense of right is so strong. As an example, my father-in-law is a type one on the Enneagram, and just two nights ago, we had a conversation where, uh, we discovered that he had actually stopped taking his medication that he had received for his kidney malfunctioning, and then we had to have a serious conversation.

And in the conversation, I had to ask him, "Do you trust-- Do you actually trust that the medication is helping you, or do you trust that the doctors are actually speaking for your benefit?" And I had to, like, really push hard, and eventually it came out. He said, like, "Fundamentally, I don't trust Western medicine."

So I'm not gonna take it. But he was giving data . He was giving evidence in terms of, like, so many other things as to why he has to listen to his body and why this medicine may not be appropriate for him. But what we discovered was that the decision of right and wrong was just already fundamentally made, and then everything else was just backing up that internal decision of what is fundamentally right and wrong.

This is the challenge. The ones can, as they go down the levels of consciousness, become very closed-minded about how they're looking at life, and, uh, they will also back things up with data, but that data is only supporting a decision of what they f- already feel is right. 

Michael: I'm-- I can experience the depth of what you're saying here for the one, because in some ways, their whole thing is about rooting out hypocrisy in this world.

And yet when you describe being closed-minded, that is such a hypocrisy compared to what they supposedly stand for. And so here they are sabotaging the very thing that they're actually after in this world. 

Hari Prasada: And it has to be that way. As much as it pains the ones to think about, to even consider the possibility of this truth which they have not reconciled with, unless they're very spiritually advanced

But it has to be this way because as soon as I abandon myself for my ego, my identity of who I think I should be rather than who I actually am, the true self or the soul, then I'm already a hypocrite, and anything I do is not related to the real me. It's not coming from the real me. It's not going to the real me.

It's not related. So everything that I'm taking on is an abstraction that I have to then justify really well and create as good of a case, as strong of a case as I can and convince myself, convince everybody else, and I do it all unconsciously. So for the one, this is exactly what's happening. It's actually the nature of the true self.

There's a Sanskrit term that s-speaks it beautifully, Saralata. It's simplicity, straightforward, clean, pure. Ones are all about purity. They're all about cleanliness. The nature of the true self is this. This is what they're looking for. But when we create a self on top of a self, it becomes the opposite.

It's covered, it's unclean, and then we align everything with that self on top of the self, which is not clean. And then the ones wonder, "Why am I not satisfied?" Or they can't admit to themselves they're not satisfied with their purity. So the nature of each of us operating in this world until we're fully self-realized, fully identified with who we actually are, the true self, is duplicity We are always positioning ourselves to be something we're not and to get validation for that.

That is the case for everyone, regardless of type. It's true for the fours who just wanna be authentic. This is how the game gets rigged, and, and I often especially speak about that for the fours, but it applies equally to all the types. And certainly you can see how fundamental it is to understand this for the ones.

Ones, we've rigged the game. You're trying to do what's right for something which isn't. We are not our egos. So you wanna root out hypocrisy from the world, you wanna root out hypocrisy from yourself, but first you have to figure out what is myself. Otherwise, the hypocrisy is what's running the show, and that is intolerable, so much so that I can't even grapple with it, but this is where the work lies.

I have to grapple with it, I have to work through it, and I have to move towards who I actually am. 

Michael: What is the experience like on the other side for somebody who is dealing with a one at a lower level of consciousness? 

Rasanath: They feel incredibly judged because the ones, they're always looking at things in terms of right and wrong.

As the ones go down the levels of consciousness, the self-righteousness of the one increases dramatically. And so if you are around a one at that level of consciousness, you feel that you're not aligned with what's right, 'cause that's how they're looking at you And it's intense to work around someone because when someone is looking at you as though you're not doing what is right, then the natural effect is guilt, and then also shame many times because it's not just what you're doing, you fundamentally are an impure person, right?

And so there is a lot of experience of guilt and shame with the self-righteousness of the one. 

Hari Prasada: It also gets very intense very quickly. So ones with this kind of bodily energy about them, it's a little bit more dressed up than for the eight, right? And for the nine, the nine just mutes it. It's a suppression.

All the types do a form of suppression very, very heavily. But for the nines, they're suppressing that intense bodily energy of wanting to move and move the world. For the eights, that's not what they're suppressing. They're suppressing weakness, right? And, uh, anything that makes them feel vulnerable. For the ones, it's kind of a dressed up bodily energy of wanting to move and move the world.

It's, it's dressed in some form of propriety. Even if they are punk protesters who are tough and intense in the way they look and feel, they're still trying to be proper in another way. And yet I draw the contrast between such a punk one and like a Victorian style, outwardly prim and proper one. But there's a very strong similarity.

They're trying to be proper in different ways And regardless of which one we're talking about or anything in between or, or otherwise, there's an intensity that you'll feel very quickly. You get into debate mode. Ones are always ready for it, and it- there's something they just like about this debate, and it should be fierce.

There should be some fierceness to it 'cause that makes me feel like, yeah, you know, the bodily energy is flowing, the intensity of moving the world and moving my body is flowing. But it's not like the eight, you know, boom. It's around what's right, and rhetoric, and ethics, and it should be done like this and not like this, but it's intense, and people feel like, "Oh, that, that bodily energy is being thrown at me.

I don't know what's hitting me." 

Michael: For people who are listening on audio, can you give a little bit of, uh, an audio version of some of the hand signals that you were- ... you were just using? 

Hari Prasada: Yeah, for the eight I was pounding my fist, and for the one it's moving the hand this way and this way, to the left, to the right in terms of discerning what is right and that which is not right.

That cannot be accepted. 

Michael: And we often reference the finger of doom that, uh- 

Hari Prasada: Oh, yeah ... 

Michael: it comes from Don and Russ, I believe. 

Hari Prasada: Oh, yes. Yes. 

Michael: Which is the, uh, the pointer finger outwards shaking at somebody, and, uh- It can be a very intense experience to be on the receiving end of one of those fingers of doom.

Hari Prasada: Yeah, and I, I often give the example of one dear soul we were working with who told us , "You know, we just don't debate enough." And I was so puzzled by this when Asanat and I heard this from him because I was like, "We debate everything. Nothing actually goes to press, so to speak, until we've debated it thoroughly and really arrived at something, and we can be strong, and we can get into very serious debate."

And what I learned from that experience was he wasn't satisfied with the intensity, the bodily energy of the debating. It was like he didn't get enough juice from it. I was like, "Okay, that's, that's not my thing." That's very different. And so you get a sense of the one in the body center. It's like there's some juice from the bodily energy of like, "Yeah, I can move things."

Michael: So how can one start to become more present in their body center and, and move up the levels of consciousness through this understanding of the center? 

Hari Prasada: Ones need to be aware, first of all, that they are body center types and what that means. It's not as obvious for them. Again, as you rightly pointed out, Michael, ones identify a lot with their head.

Like, "Oh, I'm reasoning everything out. I'm just such a reasonable person. I do everything based on my good sense." But good sense is actually coming from the bodily sense, the sensation of picking up things, how the world moves, and then I form my decision from that. And so we have to be honest with ourselves that that's what's happening.

There's kind of a, a presetting here, an inclination that comes from a different place that's not as logical as I'm making it out to be, and if I can admit that, then I might be able to open up to what might be actually higher. Ones hate this. Higher? What? Higher than me and my righteousness? Are you kidding me?

This is the direct confrontation of the ego. Nobody likes this. Everybody hates this. Ones, this is the center of their struggle. I have to be right. I have to be good. Ah. And so when we hit up against that, it's so intense for the ones, and then that's why they bring out that intensity on other people because they wanna prove to themselves that I am so good, I am so right.

You just have to align with me. Damn it. Once we admit that this is not coming from the place that we think it is, then we can do some more research. We can become curious in an exploring mood of what might be more right than how I'm thinking currently, which is based on a gut sense. And it's not that gut senses are inferior to logic.

That is not the point. It's that both are needed, and sometimes the gut sense is superior. It's not that the head center types have any kind of advantage here But we have to be attentive to where it's coming from so that it's not hypocritical and again, dressed up as something else than what it is, and that we're actually open, that we're actually open to receiving.

Our hearts are also needed in this process, right? So first, become present to your center and the fact that you are getting some urge in the body that this is what would be right. Question it. Question it seriously. Question where it's coming from. Think more deeply. Think about what moves my heart, and then go from there.

But for all of this to actually work, you need the right sangha, the right association, people who are further along on the path to true self who can guide you. And without that, it's all kind of shooting in the dark and, and conjecturing and grasping for straws. So somebody who's further along can give that education of what is truly sound, what is coming from the highest reasoning, from the most heartfelt place, and the best gut intuition of right and wrong.

Michael: Before we move on from here, I wanna just give you the chance to talk about the squeeze, 'cause I feel like that's a very important part of understanding the one and especially in the body center, and what we can do when we notice ourselves if we are ones with, with that squeeze. 

Hari Prasada: Oh, yeah. Well, o- ones that shows up in their body language, in their posture, that there's a tightness because they're so strict about things.

They're also not strict about many other things. The things they don't care about, that we don't wanna stereotype them, the things that they don't care about, they can be completely callous to and l- very loose with. And you can imagine when there's so much strictness on certain things, there has to be, as a compensation, a lot of not strictness about other things.

But what they are so strict to, they are really so strict to . And when they fail, which they do, in adhering to their values, then their values either change or they come into this place of being in a constant war within themselves, and all of this shows up in the body language. And even at their healthiest, there is a kind of propriety and sternness that you can feel And as they go down the levels of consciousness, it gets squeezed and squeezed and squeezed.

Don and Russ talk about it like a toothpaste that has been squeezed out of all of its juice. And with that, there's a dryness. It's like all the juice of life has been squeezed out of me because I'm so strict, and I have to adhere to this, and I'm failing. I'm not good enough, and people are frustrating the hell out of me.

They're not good enough. Why don't they listen to me? Why don't they align with me? They're not making me feel like I'm good, and I'm good enough to inspire them and influence them, and I just feel so squeezed inside that when you see me, there's a closeness and a tightness, an uprightness and uptightness in my energy.

Michael: We should definitely have the body center episodes recorded on video and not, not just audio. Wonderful. Thank you very much. I, I really appreciate you, you bringing us into the, the full experience like that. So as we come to a close here, what would you share in closing, and especially as we think about the spiritual understanding of moving from the ego to the self or the type one?

Rasanath: The ones, ones are in search of purity, and purity doesn't really exist on the level of the ego. Fundamentally, by definition, the ego is pseudo. The ego is not the real self. And when we base our sense of purity on the ego, then we are fundamentally not pure. The, the ultimate purity is only experienced when we return to the real self.

So the ones have to understand, ultimately, deep down, that's what they're actually searching for. To be aligned with what is pure means to live the life of the soul. It is actually as simple as that. And most ones will not necessarily debate it because they know intuitively, and this is the beauty of the one too.

There is a sense that something is actually uncontaminated. To live aligned with that takes us to know what that true self is. So without investing in understanding what the true self is, then everything else that comes out of that is only false. 

Hari Prasada: There are also many very, very aspiritual ones. I would say that's the majority of ones because it's the majority of this world, and the ones are not an exception to that.

But there may be more of an intuition of a core of me than perhaps other types which they can lean into. But then they have to also see that that's leading me to the spiritual. As soon as that becomes the obstacle, then we're stuck. 

Michael: Wonderful. I have a lot to take with me from especially this last part of, of the discussion.

Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom as always, and, uh, thank you everyone for listening. 

We've got our six-month coaching certification program, a bi-weekly space for deep conversations on the Enneagram called Enneagram Library Live, and our weekly spiritual gathering, Remembering Who We Are. You can learn more at upbuild.com. And now, on to the episode

Welcome to this special Enneagram compilation episode on the type nine. 

Michael: In our podcast, we've explored the Enneagram through lots of different dimensions, including the centers of intelligence, behavioral patterns, predominant emotions, and many more. Each of these episodes looks at one particular dimension and explores how it shows up across all nine types.

For this episode, we've flipped that around and pulled together all the excerpts related to a single type to give you a deeper understanding of that type through the different dimensions we've covered. Since each clip comes from a longer conversation, in this episode, you'll be jumping into discussions that are already underway.

Between each section, you'll hear a brief chime and a quick introduction to the next dimension so you know where we're headed. Each dimension shines a light on something different. Put them together and you start to get a fuller picture of the type, including both its incredible gifts and the darker patterns that each type is called to recognize and gradually transform.

We hope you enjoy the journey. Over time, we'll also be releasing full-length episodes that explore each Enneagram type through these dimensions in greater depth.

 Our first stop is the centers of intelligence, the dimension that helps us understand where each type primarily processes and responds to life. For type nine, that's the body center. Let's listen in 

Hari Prasada: The nine. Their essence qualities are wholeness, unity, and flow. So they're sensing how the world is moving and they're. If they're not wanting to go against it, the eights are like, let me go against the world, let me shift things, counter things.

Let me give my presence to move a mountain. Benigns are thinking almost the opposite. Things are already moving in this world. How do I just get into that current? So nines are sensing, okay, things are going like that and like that, and like that. I'll just ease myself in. Yeah, I have that intuition. I'll just enter into that flow like that, and then there will be harmony and I will be able to be peaceful and it will be very nice.

That's the feeling of benign. The world is moving, the world is moving. The world is moving. Don't let it knock me over. Don't let it cause me any disturbance. Let me figure out exactly the right place to enter the stream when it's exactly the right speed and everything is comfortable and nice, and then I can move with it.

Michael: And so how does that situate them in the body center? 

Rasanath: One of the characteristics are. The essence of the type ninex is flow. So this word flow has been used a lot. Sometimes in coaching sessions I hear, but I wanna be, I wanna experience the energy of flow. I wanna be in that flowing space. And many times we are talking about that as like intellectual ideation or creativity.

The fundamental basis of flow state, it begins with the physical body. The nines understand this, the how do I navigate the world with a certain sense of smoothness and ease and grace, despite the all the obstacles that I face When you see nines, when they're very present. Our teacher, Russ says this, that nines are very, very good with their physical movements.

There is a way in which when their hands are moving on the piano or when they're playing a sport, 

 there is a certain ease and grace and flow through the world in terms of navigation. The other thing with.

The nine is also, so when we talk about the eight as the announcement that I am here, the aliveness of it, the nine is also embodying the what does it feel to actually be grounded, you know? And one of the experiences of groundedness is I feel connected. I feel connected to everyone, and there is a sense of unity and harmony that comes with it.

Nine's also. When we talk about the Enneagram, one of the characteristics of the nine, especially as they go down the levels of consciousness, is a sense of overwhelm. A feeling like I have just been uprooted, a sense that my world has been completely shaken, and all of that is coming because there is no longer a sense of grounding. 

Our next stop is behavioral patterns.

This dimension explores how each type tends to move through the world. Type nine is one of the withdrawn types, which means they are often shy, thoughtful, and prone to overwhelm. 

Rasanath: the withdrawn types, by definition, these are types that are shy and are prone to overwhelm and as a way of coping with the overwhelming nature of the world, they tend to pull back. That's why they're called withdrawn. 

 the ego boundary is a perforated ego boundary. Uh, teacher Russ Hudson also calls it a picket fence in the sense there are gaps, there are perforations, which means now they understand why they feel overwhelmed, because things enter so much more easily from the outside world inside of me, they affect me instantly.

This is also what happens with the difference between the go-getter types and the withdrawn. It takes time for the go-getter types to even recognize that they have been affected because of the solid ego boundary. Whereas with the withdrawn types, I immediately know it's, in fact, I'm almost preparing to be affected.

I know as soon as I step outside, I'm going to be affected by the world because I have things just come in. I also, in the same way, have access to my subconscious and unconscious more readily. Things flow more freely from my subconscious and unconscious into my conscious, so that makes it pretty overwhelming the amount of things that can really affect me, and as a way of coping with the overwhelm, as a way of responding to the overwhelm I tend to pull back from the world.

That affects me so much. 

Michael: You use the. Metaphor of soundproof walls for the go-getter types. I'm thinking of being in a New York City apartment on the first or second floor and having paper thin walls on a very crowded street where there's lots of honking and having that is the experience of life for the Withdrawns.

Hari Prasada: When we were living in our ashram, were monastery that we had founded for the purpose of doing this work when we were still monks and we had branched out of our original monastery to focus on this work. I remember having sleepless nights in the beginning because of that noise. I mean, it's such a vivid metaphor and so fitting because that's exactly what it's like that I can't sleep until I get all of the noise machines in place and I figure out exactly what room is most cordoned off, and I mean, we literally have to switch rooms, all of that stuff.

It feels, and this is what I wanted to say, it's crazy making for these types. It's crazy making, and the external world is equally overwhelming, as is the internal world that this free flow of all of the unconscious and subconscious things that just kind of rear their ugly head or crop up or tempt me or attract me.

It's like, what am I supposed to do with that? And it can happen at any time. 

Michael: So then it's also not a stretch to understand why these types behaviorally are the most introverted. That's right. Of the three behavioral patterns. 

Rasanath: That's exactly right. 

Next up are the directional movements, the dimension that helps us understand how each type tends to grow and what happens when they're under stress.

For type nines, this means taking on some of the healthier qualities of type three, the achiever in growth, and some of the less healthy behaviors of type six, the loyalist under stress. 

Hari Prasada: The nine last of the types benign in growth, moves towards the three. Benign is feeling like I'm so insignificant. What do I matter? I'm nobody. And well, that may be nice if it's done out of true humility.

It's coming out of insecurity by default that. I really don't want to deal with mattering. I don't want to have the responsibility that makes me very not peaceful if I'm a key player in anything. If people are really expecting things from me, oh, I can't, that's too much for me. That's so, so disturbing. So when I move towards the three, I'm actually engaging in a way where I recognize that I do matter and it's still not about me.

It's about what's really important, what will best serve, and I become so driven to serve other people in the biggest and best, most committed way, where actually I shine. I really give it my, all, my full force, my full heart, my, my full capability. And I invest so heavily in contributing to the lives of other people that I'm unstoppable, like the three, when I move towards stress.

The nine goes towards the six. The insecurity of not being a peaceful person gets so amped up that I start causing all kinds of anxieties for myself, and I am I. Really grasping for what is my comfort zone? What can I rely on, what can I depend on? What order and structure can I create? What habits and barricades can I make so that there is certainty and order, and then I'll be peaceful at last.

But actually I'm feeling so, so, so encroached on in my little world of hopeful peace that I'm in much more anxiety 

Michael: like the six. 

Now let's turn to the predominant emotions, the dimension that helps us understand the core emotion that each type most centrally experiences.

For type nines, that predominant emotion is anger, and along with that comes a core mantra shared by the types in this triad, "Don't mess with my world. Don't mess with my world." 

Rasanath: If you are a type IX and you're listening to this podcast, this is not the first time that this has happened to us in our experience, you might be very surprised that the predominant emotion for the Type IX is anger.

Remember, the name of the Type IX is the peace seeker and me angry. No way. This just doesn't make any sense. I'm just not able to relate to it. But here is the catch. It's expressed their anger, as Arial said, in a very straightforward way. For the nines. It's the same autonomy. Don't mess with my world. I want to keep my internal world peaceful and there is all these chaos outside People are too loud.

Sometimes people are just talking about their troubles. I'm just reminded of the messiness and the brokenness of the world. I just don't want that you are messing with my world. Just leave me alone. Is actually the inner spirit of the nine, but because I'm the peace seeker, this is how I do it. I suppress my own anger.

My relationship with anger is quite complex actually, and because I suppress my anger, because it directly comes in contrast to my sense of identity as the peace seeker. I have to suppress it. Many times, nines think that they don't even know what this emotion is because they don't feel much of it. But when you suppress it a lot, it lives in the unconscious and it comes out in passive aggressive ways.

 And others experience it as stonewalling, but deliberate stonewalling. It feels very calm from the outside, but it's very stubborn from the inside. And when they don't come in touch with their anger, it's a much more readily in touch with their anger.

I almost like that about myself. Yes, deal with it. This is anger. Deal with it. The nines, they are not in touch with your own anger. And the way they express it is they're trying to protect themselves from seeing their own anger, and they're also trying to protect others from their own anger, which means the only way they can express it is by some sort of stubborn stone walling.

Hari Prasada: One of the most striking things that Don and Russ point out about the nine is that they have the self same anger as the eight. It is exactly the same energy that is being unleashed by the eight, which is so big and so loud and intense is all present in the nine to the same degree. And it's all used to suppress because to minimize my emotions, to make me peaceful, to wall off my emotions requires so much intense energy.

But because it's all happening unconsciously, I don't know, everything's fine. Even when they 

Rasanath: say, sometimes 

Hari Prasada: everything 

Rasanath: is fine. You feel like somehow the anger is just leaking, waiting to come out, but I'm just gonna keep it inside. 

Hari Prasada: And many times people won't even feel it and they won't even know. 

Next up are the wings. Here we explore the differences between a Type Nine with an eight wing and a Type Nine with a one wing.

Hari Prasada: The nine with an eight is predominantly introverted from the nine, but has a wild side and a kind of strength loving endurance chasing.

Element to them and they're more of a like the casual hanging out kind of peace lover. We're just here hanging out that nine with a one by the influence of the one is more introverted. And is more prim and proper and like, okay, so we're here. We're being peaceful, right? We're doing a good job, being peaceful, I hope, and there's this little bit of uptightness and making sure that I'm proper enough, whereas the nine with an eight is slinking back.

Like, yeah, we're just hanging out. We're just chilling. It's all good. Very different energies. 

Rasanath: You will also see the nine with an eight. There's a certain stubbornness to the nine. They can dig their heels and you don't necessarily know that's what's happening because they still have a smile on their face.

The nine with an eight is more defined. There is a, I'm still gonna do it with a smile, a nine with a one. There is a sense of duty. I'm bound by duty. So I am not as openly defined as you would get with a nine, with an eight, but the stubbornness comes out in the form of there is a principle that I have to live by and I'm not going to move from that principle.

So you will see it less as defined, but more as internally stubborn. That's the difference. 

The next conversation focuses on the question: How do we fall in love with this type? In this excerpt, we explore both the extraordinary gifts of Type Nine and the deeper suffering that lies beneath its personality structure 

Rasanath: the type ninex just wants to flow through life. they feel like the world is a broken place and it registers very, very loud when they experience that brokenness, even in like regular day-to-day relationships.

That I actually want to feel very united together, harmonious with the world around me. And it is just like everything is just broken. In fact, this was the example in the visual that I was sharing with our participants at our Enneagram training, that the loudness of hearing glass shatter and then the visual of seeing all those pieces just fallen.

It's a very visceral experience. So the track nine, that's how I experience the world And so what do I do to actually put the world together? uh, the person that I'm most reminded of is my guru, my spiritual master, a swami.

My first experience of him was. A person who actually genuinely understands how broken the world is, and so sensitive to making no assumptions about when somebody talks to him. Just fully aware that there is just more suffering than the human eye can see, and the kindness and the true desire to understand and heal is just extraordinary because I know, what it is to be broken, 

 And to approach every relationship with genuine kindness, empathy, and wanting to understand all points of view, the amount of patience that is required for that, the amount of tolerance that is required for that is just unending. And yet there is this feeling that nines you naturally love them because there's certain unassuming nature about them.

I'm nobody big. There is truth to it because when you know how broken the world is, how overwhelming the brokenness of the world is, you genuinely experience a sense of like, well, how will I ever be able to put this together? Right? And so there is a genuine spirit of understanding that I'm a very limited person, and yet when they're healthy.

I will do everything in my capacity to put it together, even if I know that it is beyond my capacity. I wanna do something about it. I want to do my part, 

Michael: So one of the things that makes nine so lovable is they not very threatening.

They're really willing to hear one point of view out and then hear another point of view out and bring in voices that might be contradictory and to allow people the space to be able to be themselves and to share. 

Rasanath: it's also very, very authentically done. When it's healthy. It's not a scheme.

It's not a strategy. It's how I genuinely feel about the world. There is unity in diversity. I actually feel it. I see a vision in my heart 

Now, where the nine succumbs to the suffering is I just feel so terrified by the brokenness of the world. That becomes a reminder of my own brokenness.

That then I'm just desperately trying to escape the brokenness and the best way to escape it is to not see it. So which is where the hiding of the nine starts to happen. Where I'm just going into a shell that I'm not reminded of anything of any conflict of the pain. It's just a very comfortable place to live.

And then the way to justify that, also, nines genuinely feel that they're not really of any big consequence in this world. When it's healthy, it actually translates as humility. Like I'm very real about that, but I don't stop playing the role that I really need to play when the fear overcomes them. I just feel so inconsequential.

I use my own inconsequentially as a way to just not do anything, right. Ah, nothing is gonna happen anyways. I'm not a big person. I can't do anything here, so, so why try? 

Michael: So the lethargy and the procrastination and the numbness, it just gets so intense for the nine. 

Rasanath: It's like you see someone who is so scared.

I'm so scared to even own my place because I'm so concerned about if I own my place, what I have to deal with. And as a consequence of that, what other people might experience. Because if I own my place, I will be different. I will have a voice, and that might potentially cause a conflict with somebody else.

Oh my gosh, I can't take that. But I just feel like a scared child 

Next is parental orientation, which looks at how each type relates to the nurturing and protective functions.

For type nines, there is an attachment to both the nurturing and protective functions in their life

Rasanath: attachment to both is the type nine.

So I need both. I need the mirroring, I need the mirroring, the comfort, and I also need the orientation around the world, and I want both of them at the same time, 

Next up are the harmonics. This dimension explores how each type typically responds to conflict and tries to resolve it. Type nine belongs to the positive outlook harmonic, which means they tend to invest heavily in seeing the good and orienting towards that

Hari Prasada: the nine, the peace seeker says, okay, I don't have needs. You don't have to have needs. You're choosing to have needs, which you don't need. Neither of us need to have needs.

What is the need for them? They're just creating conflict. It's not peaceful. I don't want them. So you have to give up your needs. I'm already giving up my own. Which, by the way, I'm not, because this is indicating my needs, need for peace being the primary driver, right? But no, no, no. I don't need peace. I just naturally create peace.

Everything is peaceful if you just follow what I'm saying. So no need, no need, and I minimize all of your problems. I minimize all of my problems and ah, positive, positive, positive, everything is really good. The relationship's great. 

Now let's turn to the Achilles heel, the dimension that shows us the one thing that each type cannot accept about themselves and how that becomes their undoing. For type nine, it's I cannot accept my own importance. I cannot accept my own importance. 

Hari Prasada: I can't accept my own importance. Now, this seems paradoxical because the ego wants to make us so self-important, so why should we accept that? This is a different kind of importance. This is not the self-importance like that from the ego.

I can't accept my own importance. It requires a little digging to understand. See, for the 9, I wanna be peaceful at all costs, right? My basic fear is, uh, that I will be unharmonious. My world of internal peace will be lost. And so in order to salvage that, in order to try to live in that world, I decide any kind of responsibility is inherently unpeaceful.

It is not helping the cause. It is exactly what is breaking my peace. And then responsibility also means that other people may have a stake in this, and they may not see everything the same way that I do. There might even be conflict. Oof, this is really too much. So let me avoid all responsibility, and I'll just live in my fantasy land where you're good, I'm good, everything's good.

We just be peaceful, and we flow together, Now, is that real? No. It's a fantasy. It's a la-la land, and it's actually a rejection of my own importance. By not taking responsibility, I'm saying I don't matter. I'll say, I'll be so insignificant that nothing should fall on me that is not peaceful, and then I'll have my out.

I'll have my escape, my justification for not having to do anything that I don't find comfortable And I think of myself in those terms, and I basically make myself so small that, yeah, then I'm peaceful. But this is artificial, it's escapist, it is unkind to myself, and it's unkind to the people in my life who I am responsible for.

It's not satisfying because every one of us needs a sense of contribution, and it's just not true. You are important because your self is important, and your self is important to everybody else in your life. Fulfill your potential. Stop not accepting your own importance. It makes no sense. It's just a very, very poor coping mechanism.

As with all of the types' coping mechanisms, they don't hold up. 

Our final stop is the passions and virtues. This dimension explores both the emotional trap that keeps each type stuck and the quality that naturally emerges as the ego begins to loosen its grip.

For type nine, the passion is sloth and the virtue is engagement 

Hari Prasada: So for the peace seeker, the Nine, the passion is sloth There is a kind of reluctance, a reticence to take responsibility for my life. I feel myself as insignificant.

That's a safe place to be so that I don't have to deal with the challenges of life, which are not peaceful. I wanna be peaceful all the time. My ticket to peace is just don't take on responsibility. Let others handle that. You go do your thing. I'll be over here. I'll be happy by my peacefulness. Even if I'm not so happy, I'm much less happy out there.

At least there's some modicum of peace here. So I am run by this unwillingness to engage, a stubborn unwillingness, a s- kind of languorousness that I just leave me alone, let me wallow away my time in peacefulness, fantasy land, la la land. You do all of your doing, and I'll look and I'll think, "Ha, how unpeaceful you are."

But this doesn't do anything for the nine. This doesn't help even slightly. It's their philosophical stance of having figured out life to be a necessity of peacefulness, and everybody else is missing the boat, is just their own pridefulness. It's their own arrogance, actually. They have missed the boat. So what it takes to actually make this healthy, to heal this terrible suffering of feeling insignificant, which nobody actually wants to feel.

Even the nines don't wanna feel this way. It's a defense mechanism. It's just to try to cope with greater suffering they're terrified of. 

So again, the virtue then comes down to engagement. I give up my petty unwillingness, my sloth, my laziness to engage, and I decide I'm taking responsibility. I'm taking responsibility for my life and for the service of other people. I'm stepping into action. That's it.

It's not about my peace. Actually, my own peace is only possible when I achieve the real self. Everything else is just some silly version of peacefulness that is by negation, by shutting out reality, and that doesn't suffice. So I focus on engagement, and I become peaceful by aligning with who I really am, which is peaceful by nature, no matter what.