The Maha-Mantra: The Transformative Power of the Practice at the Heart of Our Spiritual Work

This is an automated transcript and may contain minor errors.

Vipin: Hi everyone. This is Vipin and I'd like to welcome you to another episode of Upbuilding the South. In this episode, we are exploring a spiritual practice that is both simple and profound. The practice of chanting, specifically the chanting of the Maha Mantra, a form of mantra meditation that has been practiced for centuries as a way to quiet the mind, open the heart, and connect with God.

If you've ever heard the Maha Mantra, Krishna Krishna, Krishna, Krishna,

Ram Ram, you might wonder what it means or why people chant it over and over again. Is it prayer? Is it meditation? Is it music? Today we're diving into all of that. We'll talk about what happens internally when we chant, how sound itself becomes a bridge to the sacred, and why this ancient practice is so important and relevant today.

I'm joined by my partners Hari Prasada and Rasanath, and we'll explore both the philosophy and the lived experience of chanting the Maha Mantra, Hari and Rasanath, I'm so pleased to be with both of you.

Rasanath: Thank you.

Hari Prasada: Likewise. This has been a long time coming. I've been really dreaming of putting out an episode of this podcast for the benefit of everyone who could possibly listen on this most sacred subject.

Vipin: Wonderful, wonderful. So let's get started. For someone who's never. Practiced mantra meditation before, how would you describe what it is and what it does

Rasanath: in, um, the ancient Vedic tradition? Sound had an incredibly powerful place, and the understanding behind that is amongst our senses. I was teaching my daughter the Five Senses as a part of her science curriculum.

And amongst the senses, the five senses, the sense of sight, the sense of touch, the sense of smell, the sense of taste, and the sense of sound. The sound is considered to be the most subtle. It is not surprising that even when we are in sleep, what we use to wake us up is sound. It's an alarm clock. 'cause the sound vibrations have the capacity to penetrate the deepest layers of our consciousness.

So that understanding behind sound and sound vibration is what the ancient Vedic. Texts really highlighted. And the idea of mantra, the literal meaning of the word mantra, mana manas, which is the mind, which means to deliver or to pacify or to calm the mind. So mantra is sound vibration that pacifies or liberates or delivers the mind.

And these sound vibrations are not like ordinary words. The syllables have been put together in a particular way that even the pronunciation of those syllables have a very profound effect on our consciousness. We all know how when we study sound theory in physics, that a lot of understanding of sound is around resonance and resonant frequencies.

And the sound vibrations in re are particularly designed. For resonance with the deepest most subtlest part of our being, which is why the effect is very profound and very deep.

Hari Prasada: We are trying to wake up the deepest part of ourselves, the soul, the real self is spiritual by nature. That core that makes us who we are, regardless of what age we are, even when we're a baby.

And all of our thoughts are completely different. Our mind is completely different. Our body is unrecognizably different. And when we're old, that which makes us the same person who we actually are is unchanging, is spiritual, the soul. And so this sound vibration is aimed at waking up that person. It's a spiritual alarm clock and.

There's really nothing better than to get to the deepest part of us, and there's no better way to get to the deepest part of us than my spiritual sound vibration. So that's why I've been so excited and eagerly awaiting this opportunity, and we can't emphasize enough. This is our core practice that I've, that's really what is the engine behind everything we do.

It's the reason, it's the fuel, it's everything. Our own personal practice, which is of mantra meditation using the Maha Mantra. So this is our chance to offer that to you. We hope that it will benefit you very much, and we'll try to bring you into some more understanding as, uh, an invitation to experiment and, and try to go deeper.

Rasanath: The other, uh, element to understand is that sound has a very profound effect on our consciousness, even in our daily lives. When we are in the subways of New York, if people don't even take off their airbus, their earbuds, it's like inside. They're listening to something. It's listening to music, it's listening to a podcast.

We are surrounded by sounds and that sound affects our consciousness. When someone speaks harshly to us, it affects our consciousness. When someone speaks kindly to us, it affects our consciousness. So sound has a very important place in our life, perhaps I would say from a point of view of affecting our consciousness, the most important place,

Hari Prasada: We're constantly inundated with material sound vibration. That is 100% of our lives is hearing people speak about material things and speaking about material things ourselves. Hearing that, you know, that's our music, that's our movies, that's our everything.

Our entire lives are consumed by the flood of material sound vibration. Now is our chance to turn the tables on that, to introduce something that is of a completely different nature that comes from a different plane. Of course, you have to understand and get acquainted with that and have some sense that it's possible that there could be such a plane of existence, and that if there is, that we might be able to access it and that if we can access.

This may be a way that we can access it. And many, many, many souls who've realized that they're souls, self-realized souls. They have taught throughout history by their own realization that this is indeed an extraordinary gateway and something that you must experience for yourself.

Vipin: Thank you both. I think you've made the benefits of mantra meditation really compelling.

You both have talked about this being our primary practice. Can you describe what is the actual practice of mantra meditation? So I shared the Maha mantra earlier, how do you use it to meditate?

Rasanath: So going back into the understanding of sound, we are conditioned by sound and we can also be liberated by sound.

This is the simple signs behind mantra meditation. You also see very similar writings in other religious texts too. So like for example, in the Bible it said in the beginning there was only the word and the idea of the word is it's sound. Sound is the plane in which there is the movement from the spiritual to the material and then from the material to the spiritual.

So when we understand what sound can do and sound vibrations can do for our consciousness, then the second thing to understand is why this particular mantra. There are many mantras and mantras have a purpose. Mantras have an invocative purpose. So like for example, one of my teachers gives this example of when a judge in the court pronounces a sentence, this sentence has a particular, what you call strength.

In Sanskrit, the word is sha. All that the judge is doing is he or she is pronouncing a sentence. But in that sentence, there is an entire system of authority that then puts an entire chain of action into motion. So there is an inherent strength in the pronunciation, even when it looks like ordinary sound.

Those are just words. But when you understand the inherent strength in those words, who is it coming from, and then how it unravels an entire chain of action, then that sentence is taken very seriously. So similarly, when we understand the potency of the mantra, the sound, the vibrations of sound, then we understand what chain of action it actually unleashes when we chant them.

So when you search in the Vedic scriptures, you see many different mantras, and those mantras have. Many different purposes. There are mantras through which one can invoke any material desire in one's life to manifest. There are mantras that are recited for a particular kind of effect to produce very auspicious vibrations, and then there are mantras that are specific for liberating the soul from the conditionings of the material world and amongst all of those mantras.

Then the reason why we call this the Hamra, the great Maha Mantra literally translates into great are the most powerful. The ham mantra is essentially waking up the soul to what it's meant to be. The ham mantra includes the effect of all other mantras because ultimately all other mantras are driving one to wake up.

In slow steps. The ham mantra includes everything that the other mantras give, but has a much more direct and profound effect, which is to awaken the soul to its own constitutional nature, which is to realize its a tonality to awaken to its full knowledge and to awaken it to its full happiness or bliss.

So it's called Seth. Seth means eternality. Ch means knowledge and means joy, happiness, bliss. So the ham returns the soul to its natural state of which is why it's called Hamra, because no other mantra has the potency to do it so quickly and so directly as the Hamra does.

Vipin: That sounds really good, and I'm wondering how many times does one have to speak?

Say the Maha mantra to awaken the soul,

Rasanath: we will come to bat.

Hari Prasada: Yes. Yes. So going back to your question, the way that we practice this mantra is actually in two ways, and you alluded to this in your beautiful opening, that it can be sent in music and it can also be done as a meditative practice on one's own.

So when it's set to music, that can also be done actually on one's own. But it is also very wonderful and it increases potency in, in some ways to join together and sing The Maha Mantra that is called, and it's now a, a genre of music that is recognized even in the mainstream. Not as mainstream as other genres for sure, but it's there.

I mean, we have Grammy nominated Nias. It's incredible vie our friend was just nominated again for a Grammy, she was part of a Grammy nominated album and Ti Without Borders, his name of that album. Now we just found out that she was nominated for her album Into the Forest, which is her own album. And it's incredible.

So it's being. Seen by more people being experienced by more people. And Stan includes all kinds of different mantras. But even Krishna Das, who is not part of our tradition, but who is, uh, I would say he's the most famous zania that I know of. I think that's pretty largely true. He says that somehow when he chance the mom mantra, everybody goes wild.

Every time he chance the mom mantra. There's just something about that mantra and he chance all different kinds of mantras, but when he chance the mom mantra, people just, something happens. And so we can understand that there's something special about this mantra. And in Kirtan it's extremely powerful.

But our focus today will be more on forming one's own personal practice meditation. So that is done as a. Murmuring of the mantra through. So it is done typically under one's breath, if you will. It can be done a little bit louder than that. Sometimes it can be done significantly louder than that in certain circumstances if you want.

But the most traditional and effective way that it's done is just for you to be able to hear it, so it's audible for you, and then somebody else may be able to hear that you're chanting, but it won't be as distinct. So that's the normal way, and we repeat it again and again and again. Now, when you're starting out, you may not have all of the accoutrements.

We do it on deeds like a rosary, for example. In the Christian tradition, you would see Buddhists have rosaries as well. So when chanting the Maha Mantra the most. Beneficial way is by having a set of beads and ideally there are 108 beads and we chant one mantra per bead and we go around until we've chanted 108 mantras of the ham mantra, and then we go back around the other way and do it again.

So we'll change directions on the beads. Again, this is not important when you're first starting the practice. It's good if you are inspired to do it, but the most important thing is that you're chanting the divine sound vibration. The beads just help to. Make a commitment to yourself to be accountable and to really throw yourself into the practice.

That's very powerful and it creates a tactile sensation to absorb the mind more so that you are actually staying with it and you're not allowing your mind to go in different directions. Though, for each bead, I have to stay with it. There's a sense of touch, so it's,

and that's a good volume. But I myself will chant a little softer these days 'cause that is more traditional. It has some effect, but the key here is to arrest the mind through the sound. So if you need to chant a little bit louder. That can be helpful to grabbing the mind with the sound. And I do that for 16 rounds.

That's my vow actually to my spiritual master, my guru, because this is considered the most important instruction that the guru gives. Our teachers emphasize this as the most transformative practice you could possibly offer yourself. And so we take that with great gravity and we make that commitment minimum of 16 rounds, which takes.

A couple of hours for most people. For me, it takes a little bit longer, and if you can do it in one sitting, it's amazing. If you can do it in the morning, first thing, if you can do it before dawn, ooh, you're increasing the efficacy more and more and more. I try to do my best. It's not always possible to do it like that.

And here we would say never bite off more than you can chew. You wanna start really, really, really small. Even a couple mantras a day is a significant impact. Obviously you wanna do more than that, so couple of minutes or one round, if you will. 108 mantras would constitute one round. That's a beautiful starting point, one round, which takes the average practitioner around seven or eight minutes when you're starting out.

It will take longer than that, maybe 10 minutes or more. That's okay, but you focus on the pronunciation. Just very clearly and distinctly pronounce each sacred syllable.

And you keep going like that and you can stop whenever you like. But when you're doing this, be cognizant of the sanctity. Try to absorb yourself. We talk about taking a sacred bath. Bathe your consciousness. I was just hearing this morning my AMI saying he likes to visualize when. Doing something very sacred, that it's cleansing, it's taking out the black muck that is covering the heart, covering our true nature.

Why we don't actually understand that we're souls. Why we may not even believe that we're souls, much less experienced is because we're being so covered, covered by material conceptions, or should I say misconceptions. They're not who we are. They have nothing to do with who we are, but we're conditioned.

So this covers our hearts, and the Maha mantra cleanses it. It cleanses the black, dirty, dusty covering that is blocking us from seeing and experiencing who we actually are.

Vipin: A hundred psad. You just mentioned bathing the consciousness and the sacred sound vibration. Can you both share more about what that inner experience is like for you?

Rasanath: When I think about my own journey with the mantra, the first thing that I remember when I chanted the Muhammad mantra and I heard the muhammadur was I immediate sense of peace. I can't explain it in any other way other than feeling enveloped by the sound vibration and a sense of fear subsiding. And it's only later on when I understood more about the mantra, one of the verses that speaks about the mantra, that talks about how when one takes the chanting of the mantra, the experience of one's fear in the material world starts to decrease.

And for me, that was the first and immediate experience. I can tell you I was in a very difficult emotional space at that time.

Hari Prasada: This is the first time, the first time you started chanting the mom mantra.

Rasanath: Yeah. And when I heard about the Hamra, this was also the beginning of my own spiritual journey. And when I heard about the Hamra and I just started, I used to chant it five times a day.

That was it just five times a day in the morning.

Hari Prasada: You're saying five mantras,

Rasanath: five mantras a day. And the effect of chanting those five mantras was a decrease in fear and anxiety. I almost immediately felt it.

Hari Prasada: And you felt this way at the time. This is not a retrospective because I, this is a very tall promise for someone who's just beginning.

I mean, I would say I didn't experience that myself. So if someone's expecting that, they say the mantra and they immediately get a feeling of peace, they might turn away like, that's a false promise.

Rasanath: Well, so this was my subjective experience with it. I know exactly what it was for me from a point of view of anxiety that I was experiencing enchanting, the ham mantra helped me immediately.

The anxiety just came down and it gave me immediate faith in the practice because it was working some way. Uh, so that was my first experience with the practice of the mantra.

Hari Prasada: And that was 25 years ago.

Rasanath: That was 28 years ago.

Vipin: 28 years ago. So I'm curious how that inner experience has evolved 28 years later, and now you chant more than five mantras a day.

So after many hundreds of thousands, probably millions of mantras later. What is your inner experience

Rasanath: now? My inner experience is the experience of connection with the divine. Through the mantra, it's taken time. To get here. And it has also taken repeated understanding and being taught about how to approach the mantra and practice it very diligently to then experience what I'm experiencing now.

And I can also say that my practice is imperfect still. And so a lot of work that I'm doing is on refining the elements of my own practice. But when I do get into the space where the practice is very clean and pure, then the experience is uh, one of divine connection. We do experience the sense that I'm completely untethered to this material world, that this material world has no effect on what is who I am truly, and that everything that I'm seeing and experiencing in this material world is actually a ripple.

In the fabric of time that has nothing to do with the eternality of the spirit. And in that then there is this experience of a much bigger, larger presence of God and feeling very deeply connected with God in love and that experience, even a little, a fraction of that experience, leaves you craving for more, you know, which then fuels the intensity of the practice.

Vipin: Wow, that's sublime.

Rasanath: The moments when I've experienced it have been etched and you sort of long for it. Again, you sort of want to live in those moments, but because as I said earlier, my personal practice is still not perfect, actually far from perfect, you are not able to access then the full benefit of the chanting, which we will come to in terms of when we talk more about.

Perfecting our practice. We can talk more about that, but you get a glimpse of a higher reality and you long for that higher reality.

Hari Prasada: Yeah. Aal, I wanna hear about your experience, and I'm also, after listening to what AU is saying, I'm left wondering, how does repeating these three words, syllables names, lead to the divine connection?

I mean, that's a profound experience that Rasanath is describing. Maybe you can share that's part of your inner experience, how you can help us all relate to that divine connection.

Rasanath: We don't fully understand the signs of mantra meditation yet. There are so many elements that needs to be understood to actually understand, well, how is it working?

Even theoretically understand how it's working. It's very akin to, you are struggling with a disease or you're struggling with some sort of pain, and you go to a doctor and the doctor says, well, here's the prescription. You know, just pop this thing in your mouth, drink some water, and it seems very simplistic as an idea.

And when you are experiencing the pain you like, like how has this anything to do with, and there's pain in your feet and you put something in your mouth, how does it solve the pain in my feet? There's no real direct connection between, you know. Like, I'm not even putting the medicine sometimes in the part where there's pain and yet how does it work?

And it still does. And of course there is explanation for it. When you understand the signs of how it works, then you understand, well, this is how it's happening. And an expert medical practitioner, when they prescribe, they also understand well why they prescribe it and how it's working. So similarly, when we over time understand the technicalities and the signs of the meditation practice, the signs of our own anatomy from a point of view of how we are composed of the gross, gross and subtle material elements, and you know how the spirit and soul is covered by all of these things and how they affect how the mantra works through the layers, then this becomes a little more clear.

Even theoretically

Hari Prasada: for me, the experience of chanting the ham mantra. Began in 2006 when I was a student at New York University studying film, making my own movies, setting up a glorious life in my mind for how I was gonna be famous embarrassingly so, and. Uh, I was gonna enjoy everything I ever wanted to and live my best life.

I wouldn't say it in those words, but yes. Make something of myself and be super, super happy. And this actually threw the wrench in that, that's my experience, was that this mantra that I came in contact with. So now everybody's really anxious to chant, right? Throw the wrench in all of your hopes and dreams and plans with this mantra.

Woo hoo. Let's all do it. That's what happened to me. Uh, I've been recently referencing, I reference it a lot, but I recently was referencing with one group that I was speaking to Michael's piece, the Freedom Fantasy, his Reflection. 'cause we all have these fantasies of how we're gonna be happy one day and when this thing happens, when A happens, when B happens, then when C also happens, and all of these other things.

Or just this one thing, then I will, ah, then I'll have made it. Then it will be good, or at least it'll be better than it is now. Or I'll be in the clear, I just have to get through this one phase. I just have to get my vacation. I just have to do this. I just have to do that. And then we died. And it never happened.

It never happened. We just survived one stage after another, after another. And we said, yeah, I got happiness through it. But it's not the real thing. The soul is unquenched. It is longing for ecstasy. The anunda that Sath was speaking of bliss. Even Karl Jung speaks about this, how the word spirit with respect to alcohol is not a coincidence.

It comes because of the soul's unstoppable pursuit of ecstasy. And so I will become intoxicated by something material. Since I can't find it for the soul. So we're all of these drivers, all of these hopes and dreams directing us out into the world. It's a freedom fantasy. It's not real what the soul actually wants that's behind all of this stuff, but not satisfied by it.

That's what we have to get to. And so the chanting of the Maha Mantra started to reset my desires. It was in a how my guru Swami speaks about it. It's a rewiring I've experienced that I become more and more myself. I have greater clarity, greater conviction, greater passion, and greater selflessness. I don't find myself so selfishly oriented that the world is my oyster.

It's all for me. You're an object in my existence. I would've never told you that. That's how I see you or how I see the world. I would've never told myself that. I was asleep at the wheel and I didn't know that I was asleep. That's often the nature of sleeping is we don't know we're asleep. We think what we're experiencing is real.

It's only when you wake up that you start to see, even when you are in the process of waking up, you may get cognizant, oh, wait a minute. I think I'm dreaming now, or I'm coming in and out of a dream state. That's my inner experience of chanting is waking up from a dream and having popes and dreams that live outside the dream and experiencing greater and greater contact with that, that it becomes real, my own self, my soul becomes real.

As Rasanath said, my practice is very imperfect. It is really, it's an understatement from my side. It's very, very difficult. We'll talk about distraction in a moment, but it's very difficult. It's a. Battle and raat, and I bond over this a lot, that when we are chanting, we're fighting the mind. Another way of putting it is we're fighting the material energy.

All of the momentum in the direction of, I want this, I want this, I have to do this, I have to do this. I'm an anxiety about this. Oh, I should put this on the grocery list time. Let me do, let me do, let me do, let me do. I have no time for this. Oh, I'm not experiencing what I want. I'm not getting the ecstasy.

My mind is not cooperating. I'm upset. Somebody said this to me. That makes me more upset. The mind goes everywhere. Everywhere. It's unlimited. But through this chanting, we start to see how we will never be happy. We let the mind go everywhere and we start to reign it in. We start to actually become self-controlled, which is the only way you can be happy.

And Krishna says in the Pita, the, the basis of our work at up Build and where Krishna actually tells our Jah when he's coaching him to self-realization to realize who he actually is. He says, JPA is the greatest sacrifice and this life is for the purpose of sacrifice. Because anytime you do anything, you're making a trade off.

You're choosing this over this. You're choosing this over every other possibility. So this life is all about sacrifice. And the best sacrifice you can make is jpa. JPA means mantra meditation. And when you actually choose to make this sacrifice, this trade off, invest your time and energy, you're actually getting closer and closer to reality, to the real self.

And you're recognizing more and more how encumbered we are by our material misconceptions, by our, the craziness in our minds. And we develop the desire to stop that, to reign it in, to wake up. It becomes so real. I cannot emphasize this enough. It becomes so real. And we get tastes and we get tastes of great joy even sometimes.

Sometimes, not all the time necessarily. Not at the beginning, but not for me. Certainly for me, it's the battle to really reign things in. But Krishna also says in the pita, he says, what is the question of happiness that we all want? Nobody doesn't want happiness. What is the question of happiness if we don't have peace?

And how will you get peace if you can't control this thing? The mind impossible. It doesn't make any sense. It is a crazy proposition. So we need to deliver the mind. We need a mantra, manas, and together the deliverance of the mind, we have to free our minds if we want to become happy. So my experience is that actually everything becomes harmonized.

Everything becomes. Revolutionized revolving around this one principle of I want to be who I am and I want to offer selfless service to everybody else as they really are, as the real self, as subjects and not objects. I want to live in connection with everybody at the deepest level and serve them, benefit them in that way.

I wanna stop the charade. All of the selfishness, all of the ego that we talk about all the time at up build. I want to be me, and that becomes an insatiable force that has changed everything fundamentally for me. I am not the same person, even slightly. I cannot relate to my old self and I, I love that.

I'm so happy to be jumping more and more and more into that reality every day, one month at a time.

Vipin: Okay. Wow. I have many questions, but I also just want to. Take in what you've shared because you are describing how chanting has affected how you show up in your life in so many ways from changing your fundamental desires to moving from a me centered universe to one in which you see yourself in connection with all other souls and the reality of who you are and your connection with the divine.

Before we get into the distraction, which you also spoke about and alluded to, can you share how it's affected your relationships as well? Because one of the things that you just mentioned about Krishna saying that JPA is the greatest sacrifice, it can seem very. Self-oriented in that you're trying to clean your consciousness and see yourself in a sharper reality.

But then when I think about great sacrifice, seems like that would have to involve helping and serving others much more than a practice that feels centered around oneself. So how has this affected how you are in relationship to other people?

Hari Prasada: Well, you cannot help anybody else if you don't first help yourself.

That is the basis of helping anybody else, and that's the problem is that we actually, we put the equation upside down. We really try to help other people because we can't help ourselves. I mean, the helping professions are riddled with this. It's really, really intense.

Vipin: And I guess another question is, where are you helping from?

Are you helping from the place of ego or are you helping from exactly the self, the spirit,

Hari Prasada: because everyone wants to feel like, I'm so great. I'm so selfless, I'm so effective. Look at me. Look at me. You need me. I've contributed to the world. So the soul also wants to help and contribute, but it's very humble and very pure and actually is interested in the benefit of the other and making sure that I am completely streamlined towards service.

Being an a pure instrument of service to everybody else, it is not me, me, me. Look at me, look at me, look at me, and, oh, I'm so great. This is all going on. Unconsciously we have to actually hold up a mirror to our ourselves. The chanting is a way of doing that, and it's extremely effective. It's the most effective thing that I've experienced.

So to. Benefit my relationships means I have to take care of my own needs. And the greatest needs are of the real self. Everything else is subsidiary. Yes, we have to brush our teeth. Yes, we have to do everything else. So of course, not everything else we think we need to do, but the things that we actually need to do, which is a whole process of discernment.

And that will evolve over time for sure. But just as you don't go a day without brushing your teeth, for us, we don't go a day without chanting. This is more important than brushing our teeth. We understand it's extremely important to brush your teeth. If you understood that you're not this body, how much more important is it to actually bathe the consciousness and to engage in spiritual practice?

So. This is really the key, and it changes fundamentally all of our relationships if we allow it to. For me personally, I know that back in the day I was thinking, what can I get from people? But again, this is the insidious nature of the ego. It is not conscious because if it's conscious, then we think, oh, I'm a bad person, or I'm not very likable.

That's not so good. So I don't allow myself to experience that. I have automated repression mechanisms that keep me safe. From having to deal with any of that. So I was thinking in my relationships, well, I'll be friends with this person and then that person will take me here, we'll do this together, and I'll be really happy because I'm cool, I'm likable.

This person looks up to me. We work well together, we have fun. We make each other happy with all kinds of material experiences, and we'll make contributions, and I need this person and this person needs me.

Vipin: People become objects of your desire.

Hari Prasada: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I never thought of it like that, but yeah, that's exactly what's happening.

It's objectification, and especially in romantic relationships. My God, this person will satisfy all of my pleasures, all of my fantasies. Talk about the freedom fantasy. Yes, I will get everything I wanted and. And then there's this part that's like, yeah, and also I will make that person happy and they will see how great I am because I make them so happy.

So then it comes back to me again. It's all about my own, not enoughness and wanting to be worthy and have the sense that I'm so good. I'm such a good person. I'm so admirable, I'm so laudable, I'm so kind and nice, and selfless, and loving and lovable. You know, me, me, me, me, me. Code word for me, me, me, me, me.

Now the ma mantra has, uh, shifted that very, very powerfully. Again, I can say honestly, unrecognizably, I do not recognize my former self like that. Yes, the, the desires still are, there are vestiges there, and I'm not a pure soul yet. I have a ways to go. I, I need to get much better and I'm praying for that, but.

Compared to who I was, I have deep conviction in this practice. So when I chant, when I take that time for myself, I know I'm setting myself up to have different relationships on different levels. The conversations I have with people, the sense of investment in them, the lack of focus on myself, only just focusing on trying to be my best for them and for God.

And experiencing that internal connection and dependence on the divine as, as the person I want to be, an instrument of grace for that is so, so special. It's indescribable. So even with my relationship with my wife, it's night and day difference from. What I was experiencing prior to taking up this practice where we want to serve each other and I'm trying my best to be an instrument of service to her and to use my time valuably to connect deeply about meaningful subjects, not just whimsically.

Of course, we are laughing and joking and, but not with a selfishness and a frivolity and a whimsy. But actually there's, there's a consciousness that time is the most valuable thing. Let me use every moment in the service of the soul and in the service of every other soul. So hence this work of up build and all of the relationships that we have with each other as a team and as a community, and trying to invite as many people as we can into that experience of community.

It becomes just so beautiful. So heart melting. I wouldn't give that up for anything.

Vipin: What does this mean practically? Because the MA mantra is known to cleanse the heart, but that can seem very abstract. What does it mean practically?

Rasanath: Practically it means a decrease in our material desires. That's basically practically how it manifests,

Vipin: and a decrease in selfishness.

Rasanath: That is the root of selfishness.

The root of selfishness is material desires are the desires of the ego to be the controller and the enjoyer of everything. It just boils down to that very thing. Anything that I want in this material world ultimately serves the purpose of reinforcing that false identity of the ego.

That I am the controller of everything and I'm the enjoyer of everything.

Hari Prasada: It works both ways because the root of material desires is selfishness. Otherwise, we wouldn't have them in the first place. So you can look at it from either angle.

Rasanath: They feed off of each other. There is selfishness. Yes, exactly.

Material desires. And then those material desires just increase more, more selfishness the way, uh, if there was an imagery or something that is more graphic to understand this, think about a mirror that has splotches on it, that has like all these different spots on it. And, uh, when we are trying to look at our faces in the mirror, you know how, I don't know if it has happened to you, but sometimes it happens on my phone where, you know, I'm looking, looking at the camera and the camera's pointing at me, and there is actually something on the phone.

You feel like it's actually sitting on your face.

Vipin: Oh, like a dust particle or something like that, like dust particle or

Rasanath: something like that. Now think about so many of them sitting and you're looking at your own reflection and you can't see the true self. It's impossible. You have to clean. Sometimes you can't even see the outline based on how dirty the mirror is.

So the effect of cleaning the heart is essentially the heart that reflects the true self. It's like a mirror where our true identity is reflected back. Otherwise, that mirror essentially reflects back our false identity, which is the a covering, right? So the mantra and one of the primary effects of the mantra as it's described is cheto, theum, chta, or the word chta, is referring to the chita, the, the mirror that reflects back our original identity.

And theum essentially means the mirror, Chita means the heart, and so chita the chita or the heart, which is like a mirror to reflect our true identity. The Muhammad thread, the first effect of the chanting of the mantra is cleaning of that mirror, because when that mirror gets cleaned. Then it is just natural that we actually begin to see our true identity.

And what is that cleaning process? It's, it's cleaning all the desires that are like specs, all those identities, all those impressions that are like specs on that mirror. And then we can't see our true self. We only see what is reflected back with all those, all of those specs,

Vipin: I, I really dislike a dirty mirror.

And so I'm feeling like I need to stop this podcast right now so I can, I can, I can start chanting and, and cleaning my own mirror.

Hari Prasada: That's the spirit. That's the spirit. That's exactly what we want. And that's the effect of actually hearing about the mantra. We'll speak more about that at the end, but the more we hear about the mantra, the more we want to chant it if we're in a receptive mindset, and that's actually greatly powerful.

It's the prime necessity for perfecting the practice.

Vipin: Yeah, I'm getting a visual of, uh. The bathroom mirror because we're brushing our teeth and flossing and there's some specks there, and it, after a couple of days, it gets very, uh, well, just, it's not very nice. It's gross. It's, it's gross. It's gross. Yeah.

So it is so helpful to hear what you're saying that cleansing of the heart is to be able to see the true self more clearly, I should say. Not even clearly, because that's a, just a long process that most of us aren't even aware that there is a true self underneath in that lives in the heart that's underneath layers and layers of dust accumulation and ego.

So the cleansing of the heart starts to give us some sense that there's a true self. Underneath all of that, that is what Harry Per was alluding to in the very beginning of this conversation. That is who we really are. That's separate from all of our material, body, mind, ego, desires, and world that we occupy.

Hari Prasada: Yeah, you can measure your spiritual advancement through this practice of mantra meditation in many ways. But they boil down to sort of two broad buckets. One is how much my material desires were decreasing all of my lust, wanting this, wanting that, desiring this, attached to this, wanting to be seen like this, wanting to prove to myself, I'm enough, I'm this, I'm great.

Aren't I being seen for that? Why am I not being seen for that? So. On the one side, your selfishness or lust is decreasing. On the other side, your selflessness is increasing your spiritual desire, your desire to experience who you really are and help everybody else experience who they really are as the soul is increasing.

And for me, that is so extraordinary. I cannot put it into words. That is what this mantra has given me. It has given me the greatest gift, which is the conviction in the greatest gift that I've not yet uncovered, but which I can feel coming closer and closer. And the more that this sins as Sigmund Freud and CS Lewis both termed it, this longing in the heart, this yearning for something that I can't put my finger on.

Sigmund Freud didn't know what to do with it. CS Lewis said, yeah, that's your longing for God, my friend. That's the thumbprint of God on your heart, if you will. So that sense of, or that yearning, longing, that has to increase, it has to be ratcheted out more and more and more. It's there. It's buried in all of our hearts, and it's being directed in all different kinds of ways.

Through this chanting of the Maha mantra, we can actually strengthen and channel that longing towards self-realization. And in my own felt experience, it becomes an increasingly uncontrollable desire, which is good because otherwise all the material desires are increasingly uncontrollable. When we have a spiritual desire instead of negating, it's channeling, it's harnessing and directing properly towards who.

We're meant to be and to really, really help everybody come to that place that, again, can't emphasize this enough. This is the, the fabric of up build. It's why we exist and it's what fuels us. So I really, really want for everyone to try to practice and it's just three simple names. Re Krishna and Ram Krishna.

Ramma re means the divine feminine. It's, uh, the energy of divinity. And Krishna is the divine. Masculine means the all attractive, and rah means the reservoir of all pleasure. So you have God and his energy who go by countless different names and different traditions. Here we have these three names.

They're all wonderful and if you chant any of them, you will get a great effect of cleansing the heart and and connection with God. All of what we're talking about is relevant even if you don't take these three names, even if you take the name of Yahweh or Jehovah or Allah. But here we have Re Krishna drama, very, very special names the Divine Mother, the reservoir of all pleasure, the all attractive.

And there's something about the sanctity of these names which produces an inimitable results that cleanses our hearts and brings us closer to who we are and the actual reality of our eternality and our kinship that goes beyond these bodies and which is so deep and so felt it demands to be experienced.

Vipin: The topic is so. Profound that on the back of what each of you are saying, I feel almost at a loss for words of where, where it go next in our conversation. But I really appreciate what you shared about how we can measure the effectiveness of the ham mantra on us. So helpful to understand. In my own experience with the ham mantra, which is quite immature compared to both of your uh, practices, I have found the exact same thing that the way I can see the mantra working on me is I've seen the transformation of my desires, and that is, it's so powerful to see that in both of you.

To see that in myself, to see that in. Everyone on our team who has engaged in this practice, and it's something very concrete that if one starts to practice, you might not be in touch with that in the first chanting of the mantra, the first day, the first month. Sometimes it takes longer for one to recognize that in themselves than it might for somebody else to recognize it in you.

So I want to ask you both for someone who's listened to this whole conversation, who's never tried mantra meditation at all, but who is now curious but still a little bit skeptical, what would you say to encourage them to try

Rasanath: The taste of the pudding lies in eating it. I can't say anything more than that.

There are so many things that we have been skeptical about, but. The only way we experience, um, whether it's true or not, is by giving it a shot. And in this case, there is not much risk at all. You are just, we try many dangerous chemicals. This is none of that. This is just, uh, chanting three words. So the risk is very little, but uh, all that I can say is you only understand its effect when you taste it.

Hari Prasada: And it's a process vi and you were alluding to this in the beginning. If you put the pressure of expectation on it, that is ego and it won't work. You're not in a receptive mood. This is a process of giving to receive. You're giving yourself so that you can receive who you really are increasingly. And if it's done in the spirit of, well, this month where it didn't work for me, I tried it.

That's the ego. It's a process. To clean the mirror of the heart, you have to put some work into it. It takes a little time and energy. And when you're talking about, oh my God, so much covering that, we don't even believe that there is a self. Imagine how much cleaning needs to be done. So when you put the weight of expectation, it's not relative to the situation.

First of all, who are we to demand that it's just our ego, which is then paradoxically preventing, or I should say oxy, ironically, preventing us from receiving the very thing that we purport to want and it doesn't make sense with the situation. If we really understand the nature of existence and how our ourself is covered, and we need this mantra to uncover ourselves, then we will give ourselves to it and we will make the commitment.

We'll give it the time each day, and for years and years and years, I've been doing this for decades. I'm not there. I'm still fighting with the mind. Struggling. Struggling. Do I want to invite you into the struggle? Yes. I want to invite you into the struggle. I'm unapologetically unabashedly inviting you into that struggle because it is the greatest struggle there is.

We're struggling in material existence all the time anyway. Why not struggle for something most meaningful and you experience for yourself the incredible gains from engaging in that struggle, the courageous commitment to it. So what I would ask is you please try this. Try,

but sincerely and serious, and every day, because if you do it not every day. It's not going to really have a, a tangible effect. It will just match the whims of the mind. How can it deliver the mind? It's not, oh, I chant because I wanted to make me happy. When I wanted to make me happy. It's, I chant because I'm committed to my true self.

But it

every day, day in and day out, come hell or high water. Our mentor by she, he says, even if there's an earthquake, you chant this mantra every day because nothing is more important than the real self, and we cannot afford to give that up at all. So try start small few mantras a day or one round a day of 108 mantras.

If you want to get a pair of beads, that's a, a great thing and it won't be sustainable. If you don't have connection with other practitioners, you will never do it. Your mind will not allow you. The whims of the mind will be too strong. It's only through SGA or connection with like-minded practitioners that there's any way to sustain this practice, to keep the inspiration behind it, to not make it mechanical, to not succumb to just the distraction and the the mind's desire to say, oh, it didn't work for me.

So we need this sacred connection regularly. Increasingly, actually, and I would say again, also going back to the effect of hearing about the mantra. What do we do in connection with other practitioners? We hear about the beauty of the mantra and how to perfect our practice. What is the philosophy behind it?

More about the nature of this mantra and what it reveals about who we are and how to live who we are. So start with a commitment to yourself, to chant this mantra every day. Give it that chance, some small commitment, and then you increase over time more and more and more. And through sunga, you will be able to sustain it through connection with others.

You'll be able to sustain it, to hear more, to learn more, to go deeper, and to then want to increase the practice just as we have done gradually over time. But swiftly increase, increase, increase for maximum absorption and maximum cleansing of the heart. To experience who we are, we have a program that we would recommend for this purpose.

It's called Morning Rounds, where we dedicate a day each week to exclusively. Understanding more of the subtlety, the nuance, and the extraordinary unimaginable scaffolding that makes this mantra what it is and allows us to capitalize on it to the maximum rate.

Vipin: If a listener wanted to begin chanting the Maha Mantra, you're suggesting to commit to it every day and potentially attend the morning rounds program to get more understanding of the practice itself and to practice together, what would you say about how many mantras to chant?

Because that's, I mean, when you say you've been practicing for decades and you're still approaching the destination that you'd like, that can be quite overwhelming. So how? How do I. Rasanath, you said you started chanting five mantras. What's a reasonable starting point where someone can expect to experience some of the benefits but not be so overwhelmed that the practice doesn't take off?

Hari Prasada: I think the best is one round. If you can get yourself to commit to one round, that is a, a traditional good, very, very powerful starting point, and then you will want to increase your rounds over time, so 108 mantras, and if you can do it on beads so that you can count like that and you have the tactile sensation, it's the best thing.

If you're not yet ready to invest in a set of beads and 108 mantras, set a timer for two minutes. That's good. It's a good starting point. Increase from there.

Vipin: Amazing. Thank you both so much for sharing the philosophy behind the sacred practice and the impact on your lives. I feel very inspired to hear what you both have shared and also to have been able to share this with everyone who's listening.

So thank you from the deepest place in my heart,

Hari Prasada: that means so much. I mean, this is really, this is our heart. This is our most important practice. We have the subtitle of Morning Rounds as How to make the Most of Our Most Important Practice. So we're genuinely honored and extremely moved to finally have this opportunity to share this with you, and we pray that it makes the greatest difference for your life and for your eternity.